My guest today is Terrance Lee, an aerospace and defense program manager with 18 years of experience and the author of The Introvert Leader book series.
Talking Points:
Your gift:
Download the first chapter of The Calm Effect for free using this link:
https://hello.terrancelee.com/calmeffect-freechapter/
Terrance Lee’s Bio:
Terrance Lee is a Program Manager with over 18 years of experience in the aerospace and defense industry. Terrance created ‘The Introvert Leader’ book series to help introverted professionals who believe their personality is holding them back. His desire is to help people to discover their unique strengths while being comfortable to be themselves.
Connect with Terrance Lee:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/terrancelee/
Here’s how I can support you further:
This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
My guest today is Terrance Lee, an aerospace and defense program manager with 18 years of experience and the author of The Introvert Leader book series.
Talking Points:
Your gift:
Download the first chapter of The Calm Effect for free using this link:
https://hello.terrancelee.com/calmeffect-freechapter/
Terrance Lee’s Bio:
Terrance Lee is a Program Manager with over 18 years of experience in the aerospace and defense industry. Terrance created ‘The Introvert Leader’ book series to help introverted professionals who believe their personality is holding them back. His desire is to help people to discover their unique strengths while being comfortable to be themselves.
Connect with Terrance Lee:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/terrancelee/
Here’s how I can support you further:
This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
Hi, I'm Serena Loh. If you're used to hearing that introverts are shy, anxious, anti-social and lack good communication and leadership skills, then this podcast is for you. You're about to fall in love with a calm, introspective and profound person that you are. Discover what's fun, unique and powerful about being an introvert, and how to make the elegant transition from quiet achiever to quiet warrior in your life and work anytime you want, in more ways that you imagined possible Welcome. Welcome to the Quiet Warrior podcast. If you are an introvert and a leader or emerging leader in your profession, then listen in closely, because today's episode is all about the five keys for introverts to succeed without stress and lead with poise. Our guest for today's episode is Terence Lee. Terence is a program manager with over 18 years of experience in the aerospace and defense industry. Terence created the Introvert Leader Book Series to help introverted professionals who believe their personality is holding them back. His desire is to help people to discover their unique strengths while being comfortable to be themselves. Welcome to the Quiet Warrior podcast, terence.
Terrance Lee:Thank you for having me on Glad to be here.
Serena Low:So, terence, could you tell us what drew you first to focus on supporting introverts? What is your story?
Terrance Lee:Yeah, absolutely so. I like to start from the beginning. So I'm a kid. That in the beginning was very loud, and it's because I moved around a lot and I wanted to make new friends. But at the same time I always enjoyed time to myself. I was really into writing. I was into music and writing poetry and things like that as well. So I had an interesting kind of duality there.
Terrance Lee:When I got to the age of 13, a situation happened with a choir director at my school where I was in class one day and she didn't like the way I was singing and in the middle of playing her song she basically slammed down the piano cover, looked at me in front of the entire choir and basically yelled and told me to stop singing. It was a very traumatic experience and after that day a lot changed with me. I started to get a lot more quiet in my classes. I didn't really raise my hand anymore. I really started to just shy away in general from any opportunities to speak up.
Terrance Lee:And that really carried from that age of 13 all the way through high school, through being in college and even into my professional career and I eventually got put in positions where I essentially was forced to present in front of groups of people and people began to tell me that they saw leadership potential in me and I really didn't see that and I was wondering where people saw that, because I just didn't see myself that way and it turned out that, as I began to put myself in certain situations, I began to get more comfortable and I actually started to learn how to use my introversion to my strength, and so the goal of what I do with my introvert leader platform, with the books that I write, is to empower fellow introverts to realize that their introversion is not a hindrance, it's not a crutch.
Terrance Lee:It's actually something that they should be proud of and something that they can use to their advantage.
Serena Low:That is so interesting because as an origin story that's a little bit different from most introverts that I've spoken with who have been that way pretty much from young and that has been their consistent tendency to be quiet, to hide. But yours was because of an incident from an authority figure who perhaps told you that you were being too loud and that made you go to the other end of the spectrum and then become very consciously quiet in order to perhaps stay out of trouble.
Terrance Lee:Absolutely, absolutely. And that's what I tell people is that a lot of people view introversion and extroversion as an either or when in reality it's just a full spectrum. So for me, I would say that when I was younger I was really probably just more in the middle I did enjoy speaking up and talking to people, but I also really liked being alone. I also really at times wanted to get away from people too, and I think when that incident happened, what it really did is it pushed me to the far end of really just introversion and also just not really wanting to speak up, and so it really changed the way that I viewed a lot of things.
Serena Low:So in your definition, then, what is introversion to you and how does it show up in the workplace?
Terrance Lee:Yeah. So when I think about introversion and extroversion, it's really about stimulus. So we're an introverted person. We typically are going to get our energy from time alone. Where someone that's more extroverted, they get more of their energy when they're around people. So when we talk about the workplace environment, this commonly happens just on a daily basis. Where there's one person where, if they've been in meetings I can speak for myself here. If I'm in calls back to back all day long for an entire week, that becomes very draining for me. Or if I'm in meetings around people all the time over a long period of time, it becomes alive. Where someone that is extroverted, it can be the exact opposite. If they're just working alone, they're just by themselves and they're not able to feed off of the ideas of other people, not able to be around other people.
Terrance Lee:That drains them, and so from a workplace standpoint it's interesting to know that, because when you know it you start to realize what makes you the most productive and the environment that helps you to be most successful. So it's very key to understanding the difference.
Serena Low:That's very, very helpful, that self-awareness and knowing what helps us to stay productive and use our energy wisely. However, at the same time, in a lot of workplaces there is a focus or an assumption that a person who speaks more or speaks louder is being more productive, more proactive, more of a contributor and therefore they would be seen as being more of a leader. How do you manage that?
Terrance Lee:Yes, so that is one of my favorite questions and, honestly, I think it's one of the biggest myths that exists in the workplace today. A lot of times you're exactly right Someone that is talking more, someone that's talking louder when they're looked at by leadership in most organizations, they're viewed as well. That person's a potential leader. That person has leadership potential and ability, when, when someone is maybe not talking as much in a meeting or they're not as loud as that other person, they don't give you that same way, and this thought process is a huge mistake.
Terrance Lee:That a lot of organizations make, and I can say that because I have, at this point in my career, interacted with a number of different leaders some amazing leaders, some not so good and one thing that I will say is that I haven't seen any link between someone with a more introverted personality not being as good of a leader as someone with an extroverted personality.
Terrance Lee:Some of the best leaders that I've worked with that have been in very, very high positions in the corporate world have had very late back, introverted personalities. They're the type of people that in a meeting, while other people are talking, other people are loud, they're sitting back and they're listening, they're taking things in, they're hearing what people are saying and then they interject their thought and it's an amazing thought because they're a deep thinker and they've been really listening to what people are saying, and that's really more my style of leadership as well, and I learned that from watching a lot of those introverted leaders and mentors that I've had. So I think that's a very big mistake. That happens in the workplace and in the corporate world, and I think it's just a certain bias and a lot of people don't understand that loudness is not equate to strong leadership.
Serena Low:So you've mentioned that listening is a quality of good leadership. What other traits have you observed? Strong leaders and good leaders who are introverts, also displaying Absolutely so.
Terrance Lee:I would say patience is huge. Oftentimes in conversations what happens is there's a conversation going back and forth and people are just saying the first thing that comes to their mind, right, the very first thought that they have. We're oftentimes for the introvert. We may pause, we may be thinking through what we want to say before we say it, and a lot of times this leads to a very well thought out answer or a very well thought out thought that comes from us because we're patient. We're actually thinking before we're speaking. The other thing is observation the ability to observe your environment, to notice what's going on, to see what's going on, to listen to the thoughts of other people, to observe people's body language. There's so many things that an observant introvert is going to notice that everyone else is just missing. So these are things that are actually strengths for introvert people in those situations.
Serena Low:Now that you mention it listening patients, thinking before we speak, observing the environment, observing the clues that other people are showing through their body language, their facial expressions that actually takes a lot of work, doesn't it?
Terrance Lee:It does take work. It does. I will say that for a lot of people it may also come natural, just depending on the person and their particular leadership style. There are certain skills and when you learn to do these things, it may be difficult in the beginning, but once you learn it and start to really implement it, it really makes things a lot easier, actually, because now you don't have as much stress when you're in leadership roles or when you're in the workplace, because you're being observant, you're more poised, you're not running around with your hair on fire, you're in a better space than a better state of mind. So it does take work to get there, but once you get there, it's definitely worth it.
Serena Low:Would you also say backtracking to something you said a couple of seconds ago that actually by introverts being themselves, if this is already natural to them, if this is their tendency to listen, to pause, to observe that actually just by being themselves, they are doing themselves a favour and they're also doing their team a favour, doing a service, because actually they don't have to go against their natural grain, do they? They just have to be more of themselves, and then they are contributing. It's just that their contribution shows up differently.
Terrance Lee:Absolutely 100%, and that, again, is one of the big misconceptions that I think a lot of introverts might feel. The way that I used to feel was that my introversion, there was a problem with it, that I had to be like someone else. I had to become more extroverted, or I used to feel like I was too calm. I used to feel like everyone else is running around and they're loud and they're just different than me. I need to be more like that to be a leader. But really it's just what you said what we really should do is lean authentically into who we already are. I mean, the more that we do that, the easier it becomes, because it's not. We're just being authentic, we're being ourselves.
Terrance Lee:We're not trying to be anything else, because when we try to do too much of what we're not, we begin to burn out. It's very hard to keep up that pace and to act that way, as opposed to just being yourself.
Serena Low:That is such good advice. So, in that sense, what would you say are the five keys for introverts to succeed without stress and lead with poise in the workplace?
Terrance Lee:Absolutely, absolutely. The first key is having poise. So in my upcoming book I use an example of former US president Barack Obama and he was giving the State of the Union in one particular season and in the middle of his speech one of the congressmen yelled at him and basically called him a liar on national television with the world watching and everything like that, and it was interesting what his reaction was. He kind of pointed at the congressman and within a few seconds he just continued with his speech as if nothing had happened. And I found that situation very interesting and I quoted it and I referenced it in the book because I feel like it was a good example of poise.
Terrance Lee:Oftentimes we'll be in these situations where a lot of other people might want to fire back or people might react emotionally, whereas poise says I'm going to sit in this moment and I'm not going to allow my emotions to get the best of me. I'm going to be poise and I'm going to be relaxed. So that's the first key is being able to walk with poise, being able to walk with calm.
Terrance Lee:The second is when we are to talk about which is patience, just the ability to be patient. Sometimes in the workplace, we have situations and our first thought is to just react now. We want to fix it now, right, we want to respond right now with something. Sometimes the best thing to do is to sit back to assess the situation, to assess what's going on, to look at the pros and the cons and then make a decision or make a comment, and so the ability to be patient, the ability to sit back, is another key that definitely helps with that as well. The third one, in terms of just relieving our stress and meeting with poise, is observation. We talked about the ability to observe, so something that is very key is observing people's interactions. So, as we're in these roles in the workplace, we can look at the people we're working with and we can sense conflict. If we're observant, we can sense when somebody just brought up a good idea that everyone agrees with, right. We can sense when someone brings up an idea that nobody agrees with.
Terrance Lee:Sometimes people completely miss these things because they're not observing behaviors and conversations with their team right.
Terrance Lee:So being observant with that, with body language. There are so many things in terms of people if they fold their arms, or if somebody's talking and they're not looking at someone directly in the Eye, like there are all of these little things that we can observe as leaders and we can pick up on, and so those things make a huge difference. Fourth is connection, the ability to connect with people. A lot of people have this perception of introverts, that we have a hard time connecting with people or we don't want to be around people and all these things that you hear and that couldn't be farther from the truth. I mean, introverts are some of the best listeners and the best connectors and the most empathetic when it comes to connecting with it, with others. So the ability to connect with other people helps to lead, without stressing, with poise as well.
Terrance Lee:And then lastly is relaxation. As introverts, we have to recharge. It is essential for us, and the more that we're able to recharge, the more that we honor that and we don't try to be anyone else, we don't try to be in too many social settings and do too much group work. If that's not what serves us, then that really helps us to find the balance and to be in a better space. So those are the five things. Those five things, when practiced together and done together, really help us to lead with calm and to reduce the levels of stress that we might have.
Serena Low:Wow, that's a fantastic summary of what we've talked about so far. So, first key being poise, second being patience, third being observation, fourth being connection, fifth being relaxation. I'm just thinking in the workplace context. Would it also depend very much on the introverts role in the team and the general perception? Because you did say, for relaxation, you know, if you can avoid too many meetings or too many group settings, that would help with Relaxation, that would help with your energy as an introvert. But sometimes those things are. I'm not within the individuals control Because you are working as part of a team. You are an employee. You very much have to do what your manager tells you to do. So how would you deal with that? Yeah, great question. So you know, I think that's a great question.
Terrance Lee:So in some situations you're exactly right. You know, if somebody has meetings all day and they know that they're going to be around people, Then that just kind of is what it is right. That's part of the role, that's part of the job, and one thing that I tell people to do is to look at Just many breaks throughout the day. So let's say that somebody has five meetings in a day and somewhere in between those meetings maybe there's, you know, 15 to 20 minute breaks here and there, and for some people this is lunch right, or for other people it's just random breaks throughout the day but find those one or two things that really give you peace, that really help you to calm down.
Terrance Lee:So for me, one that I like to do is walking to the mailbox when we live in our neighborhood. Our mailbox is a few blocks away and in between meetings I'll just go for a short walk. I love nature, I love being outside, and it might sound kind of silly, but just those few minutes Really helped me to just get away from the noise, get away from the people and the meetings and the conversations, and Be in fresh air and hear the birds chirp and all of these things and for some reason, when I get back to my next meeting I'm just in a totally different headspace and I'm re-invigorated. So I think that you know to your point. Yeah, we can't always Completely disconnect and get away from all meetings or all group work and things like that, but if we can find those small pockets of time To just break away, to enjoy some time alone, that can make a big difference.
Serena Low:Thank you for clarifying that. That's beautiful. So if someone is a leader or a manager who's listening to this episode, what can they better do to support the quiet voices in the workplace?
Terrance Lee:Yes, yes, great question. So I think the first thing is to realize that the person is probably not quiet. This is one that I think is a.
Terrance Lee:There are a lot of introverted myths out there, and I think that this is one of the bigger ones. People assume that the person that's not talking as much in the meeting they get labeled, they get put in this box. The leader or manager might look at them and say, oh, this person on my team, well, they don't really talk much, this person doesn't have a whole lot to say. And the reality is they may have a whole lot to say, they might have some amazing ideas that could completely transform the team, but they have to feel comfortable to express those ideas and they also have to be put in an environment where they can express them.
Terrance Lee:One thing that I've seen happen is certain environments where people are very loud and they can come off as very dominant, and so they can dominate the conversations, and so someone that's maybe more introverted or doesn't speak up as much, they don't really get their words in.
Terrance Lee:So one way a leader or manager can support is to create environments where everyone feels comfortable to express what they have to say. So one thing that I do in my leadership roles, and probably part of why I do this, is because I'm an introvert and I can recognize it. I do have people on my team that I know are more introverted and their personality is just, you know, that's how they are. So I'll ask their opinion during certain discussions and so I consciously include them in the discussion. A lot of times somebody will just look at someone that's quieter and they just won't even think to include them. They'll just assume, oh, they don't have anything to say. But when someone feels like they're a part of the team, when someone feels like, oh, this person actually cares about my input, well, they're going to be more likely to want to contribute to that team or the conversation. So I think those are a few ways that leaders and managers can help.
Serena Low:Thank you so much. And would you say those methods also apply to people who are working in the same team? And so let's say, I'm the more extroverted, more outgoing one, and I noticed that one of my colleagues is somebody who doesn't talk a lot in meetings, who seems very quiet, very held back. Would it then be also appropriate for me to encourage them to speak up more, or should I simply accept that that is the way they are?
Terrance Lee:Yeah. So I think in situations like that, I think it's good to have a conversation with the person one-on-one I wouldn't necessarily in a group setting maybe tell the person to speak up more or do that, I think, more of a one-on-one conversation and maybe pulling that person to the side and just saying, hey, so I've noticed in meetings that you haven't made attributing or kind of talking as much. Is there anything that I can do to help with that? Or is there anything? I think, when it's phrased that way, as opposed to like in a group setting, telling a person to speak more or to talk more, I think the second approach is a lot more productive and that person may say something that'll completely surprise the person, right?
Terrance Lee:I've seen this happen in the corporate world before being a functional manager, where I'll have a meeting with someone one-on-one and they just sit there and they tell me all of these things they've been observing in the meetings and all these ideas they have, and I'm like, wow, like this is amazing. So you were sitting back this whole time and you observed all these things and you've heard all these things. So I would say for leaders like that to have a one-on-one conversation. Try to understand where the person's coming from. You might be surprised, you know. Showing that level of care, they now might feel a lot more comfortable to speak up.
Serena Low:It sounds to me like what you're saying is also fostering that climate of trust and psychological safety, because I think the introvert is very aware that there is all these misunderstandings and myths and stereotypes about what they are like and the labelling that you mentioned earlier. So they would already be quite conscious that they may think there's something wrong with them and then somebody comes and tells them that they're being too quiet and that reinforces that sense of there's something wrong with me. So I like that approach that you know, that quiet one-on-one conversation, to just clarify first, before making assumptions about why someone doesn't say a lot in meetings, and perhaps then the other the co-worker can learn something new about the quiet co-worker too, about how they actually operate and how they like to think and process and taking information and articulate their views.
Terrance Lee:Yes, absolutely.
Serena Low:So tell us, terrence, about your new book. Yeah, I know you're very excited about this and it's due out Is that right next month?
Terrance Lee:Yes, yes. So in the process right now the name of the book is the Com Effect Five Keys for Introverts to Succeed Without Stress and Lead with Poise. Definitely very excited about it. So in the process of finishing up a brand new website right now, also recording the audio version of the book, and the goal is for it to come out in April. So very excited to be available in paperback, ebook and audio.
Serena Low:Brilliant. I wish you lots of success, lots of downloads and orders with this book, and I see that you've also sent us a link for people to download the first chapter of your book for free, and so you'll find the link in the show notes to this episode, so make sure you go there to download your free chapter of Terrence's new book. Now, before this book, terrence, you've also written another book. Do you want to tell us about that one as well?
Terrance Lee:Yeah, absolutely so. The first book in the Introvert Leader series is Quiet Voice, fearless Leader and Principles for Introverts to Awaken the Leader Inside, and that book really was what I would call the basis for leadership as an introvert. So that book was just birthed from me as an introvert and going back to my story of someone that you recently just doubted myself and didn't think that I could lead to becoming a leader of large teams, and really the theme of it is that your introversion is your superpower. I mean, that was really the theme of the book, and the 10 particular chapters get into specific traits and principles for introverts and ways we can use our introversion to our strength and leadership. So, yeah, that book has continued to do well and people have really given some great feedback. It's been amazing to hear some of the stories of introverts that have read the book and then used some of those skills in their real life workplaces. So, yeah, definitely proud of them.
Serena Low:That's so fantastic. So congratulations on your book and on the new book, the Calm Effect, that is coming out in April. Remember to go to the show notes to download the first chapter of this book so you can rate it for yourself. And what is one last thing you want us to take away from this conversation? What would you like people to remember about their introverted leadership?
Terrance Lee:Yeah. So I think that it comes off as very cliche when people say to be yourself. It sounds like something that a lot of people say, but there really is power in authenticity. There really is power in not trying to fit any societal norms or try to act like anybody else out there, to really look yourself in the mirror and to think about how you truly carry yourself, what your true personality is, and really lean into that. It wasn't until I began to lean into who I was as an introvert and as a leader that I really turned the corner and began to feel comfortable. So I would just say for people listening to lean into who you are.
Terrance Lee:I mean if you're an introvert, listening into this, your introversion is not a bad thing. In fact, it can be a great thing and so lean into who you are. There's nothing wrong with who you are, and you can go very far when you begin to do that.
Serena Low:Thank you so much, terrence, for all the gems of wisdom that you've quietly and calmly dropped today and given us something to think about. Especially, I think I love that you've asked us to lean into our introvert superpower. So, in other words, there's nothing for us to strain to achieve, there's nothing for us to try so hard to copy what somebody else is doing because they look like what success should look like, because, as introverts, the way we show ourselves and the way we contribute is very different. We do that by listening, by observing, by being patient, by being poised and by connecting with others in a very deep and meaningful way, and all those are qualities that I think, in a chaotic and uncertain world that we have right now, we need even more of, and so I really appreciate your work, I appreciate what you're doing in the world. I wish you all the success with everything that you're doing, especially with a book that's coming out, and thank you for joining us today.
Terrance Lee:Absolutely. Thank you for having me on.
Serena Low:I'm so grateful that you're here today. If you found this content valuable, please share it on your social media channels and subscribe to the show on your favorite listening platform. Together, we can help more introverts thrive. To receive more uplifting content like this, connect with me on Instagram at Serena Lo Quiet Warrior Coach. Thank you for sharing your time and your energy with me. See you on the next episode.