The Quiet Warrior Podcast with Serena Low

51. Tapping into the Hidden Job Market (with Karalyn Brown)

• Serena Low, Introvert Coach for Quiet Achievers and Quiet Warriors

Share episode

In this insightful episode, Serena sits down with Karalyn Brown, a multifaceted LinkedIn profile writer, recruitment expert, and social media maven. Karalyn brings her extensive background in HR, journalism, and recruitment to help job seekers and career changers navigate the tumultuous job market. From the impact of AI on employment to leveraging transferable skills, Karalyn shares practical strategies for making your next career move. Plus, learn about her innovative approach to accessing the hidden job market and the power of informational interviews.

Key Topics Discussed:

Current Job Market Trends:

  •  The evolution of the workforce pre- and post-COVID.
  • The impact of global events on job availability and sector growth.
  • The role of AI in shaping future employment opportunities.

Understanding and Leveraging Transferable Skills:

  •  Defining transferable skills and their importance in career transitions.
  • Strategies for identifying your own transferable skills.
  •  The significance of aligning your skills with employer needs.

 
The Art of Informational Interviewing: 

  • How to effectively conduct informational interviews.
  •  Steps to approach potential contacts and make meaningful connections.
  •  Using informational interviews to boost confidence and uncover job opportunities.


The Hidden Job Market: 

  • What is the hidden job market and why it matters.
  •  Techniques to tap into unadvertised job opportunities.
  •  The benefits of networking and expanding your connections organically.


Career Transition Strategies: 

  • Smart ways to transition into a new industry without going back to school.
  •  Leveraging existing skills and experiences in new career paths.
  •  The Straight to Shortlist Challenge: A step-by-step networking strategy.


Guest Bio:

Karalyn Brown is a seasoned LinkedIn profile writer and recruitment consultant with a rich background in HR, journalism, and social media. Known for her innovative approach to career coaching, Karalyn co-hosted the Career Care Package during the pandemic and co-created Cards Against Insanity. She specializes in helping professionals navigate the job market, identify transferable skills, and access hidden job opportunities.

Connect with Karalyn Brown:

Listener Action Items:

  1. Reflect on your transferable skills and how they can be applied in various roles.
  2. Identify at least three professionals in your desired field for informational interviews.
  3. Start expanding your network by joining industry-related groups or communities.
  4. Consider participating in the Straight to Shortlist Challenge for guided networking strategies.

Stay Connected:

  • Subscribe to The Quiet Warrior podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
  • Join our community on Facebook for introvert-friendly updates and discussions.

Thank you for tuning into this episode of The Quiet Warrior podcast. If you found Karalyn's insights valuable, please leave a review and share this episode.

This episode was edited by Aura House Productions

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Serena Loh. If you're used to hearing that introverts are shy, anxious, antisocial and lack good communication and leadership skills, then this podcast is for you. You're about to fall in love with the calm, introspective and profound person that you are. Discover what's fun, unique and powerful about being an introvert, and how to make the elegant transition from quiet achiever to quiet warrior in your life and work anytime you want, in more ways than you imagined possible. Welcome.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Quiet Warrior podcast. Today we're talking about the job market. What is it like at the moment in the workplace for job seekers and career changes Anyone who is looking to make their next career move what is the best thing you can do for yourself at this time? So to help us, I've got Carolyn Brown, who is a LinkedIn profile writer, but actually much more than that. She has a background in recruitment, hr, journalism and social media, has never advertised her services, lives social media marketing every day and during the pandemic she was a co-host of the Career Care Package every lunchtime and also a co-creator of Cards Against Insanity, which I'm sure she'll tell you more about. So thank you, carolyn, for joining us on the Quiet Warrior podcast today.

Speaker 3:

Thanks so much for having me, Serena. I'm really pleased to be here.

Speaker 2:

That's fantastic, Carolyn. I would love to start with your observations on current work trends and the future of work in these precarious times.

Speaker 3:

That is such a huge question. I think what we've seen over the last five years has been humongous change I mean we've had before COVID. We had a casualisation of the workforce where there were more part-time jobs being created and that was based on globalization. And then we had COVID and we had lockdowns, so we had stopping of skilled migration and international students, which meant post-COVID we had a lot of skill shortages as businesses came back, and so a couple of years ago, you people were asking or receiving ridiculous amounts of money to do the same job, being headhunted.

Speaker 3:

Employers were advertising all over the place, from, you know, medium-sized businesses through to mega-sized businesses, so there were a lot of jobs around. But now what we've seen is that drop off, so seek advertisements. I was looking before I came onto this podcast. This year, compared to last year, every sector has dropped off in terms of advertisements and we've just heard that unemployment is up as well. So we've got that going on like it's been a period of rapid change.

Speaker 3:

But also we've got the advent of AI. We've got the advent of AI and you know experts disagree with the impact or the percentage of impact of that, but what they don't disagree on is that that will impact across all professions and you know we're already seeing that in some ways. So you know there's disagreements about how many jobs will be affected, but there isn't any disagreement that most jobs will be affected, basically, so we're in very turbulent times and we've just seen that. You know, the reason I sort of went through those things is that we've seen rapid change in different ways and I think people that say, for example, did well during the pandemic, were people that were able to pivot really quickly in what they do and in their thinking and identify what their transferable skills were, and I think that is a critical skill set to have in the future as an employee.

Speaker 2:

Tell us more about these transferable skills. I understand them to mean skills that we've imported or picked up, you know, as part of our previous role, previous career, and then we can use them across, you know, any other job opportunities that come along. But how does one actually recognise these transferable skills?

Speaker 3:

It's a really good question and it gets bandied around. You know, identify transferable skills. It's almost a cliche and people tend to put things down like leadership, communication, project management, time management, which are all great skills to have, but a transferable skill, I think, is only transferable if your future employee I'm sorry, future employer values that. So and you've got to be able to put your skillset in context of how you might apply that in a future role.

Speaker 3:

So the way that you do that a good place to start and in fact, the best place to start is identifying what you enjoy applying, what you're good at and what you enjoy applying and what you'd like to take forward into your next role, because, you know, research shows time and time again that if you play to your strengths, you're more likely to be more productive, more engaged, get promoted, be more successful. So start with you in terms of identifying what you'd like to take forward. In terms of identifying what you'd like to take forward, but also understand what an employer is looking for. And the way that you can do that is through that dreaded thing that people don't like doing, which is, you know, a lot of networking and informational interviewing. Like reaching out to people that are doing something that you find interesting, finding out exactly what they do, and then thinking about well, actually I have that experience or I could bring the benefit of being in another sector into that new sector, and then you've got a sense of what your more transferable skills are.

Speaker 2:

Would you say, to start from who you are. That requires a certain level of self-awareness and maybe some understanding of our skills and strengths, and I don't think a lot of us actually make the time to do that because we're so busy on a day-to-day basis just doing our jobs and then by the time we come home we're tired or maybe we have a side hustle to work on. So how does one actually go about this informational interviewing in a useful way?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think I'll just take a little bit of a back step. I mean an informational interview. When you're doing that, the person you're speaking to can actually help with your confidence around what's transferable. But so how do you sorry, I forgot your question, Serena person you're speaking to can actually help with your confidence around what's transferable, but so how do you sorry, I forgot your question, Serena what was?

Speaker 2:

the question how do you go about informational interviewing if you've never done it before? You know what's the first step. Who do you reach out to? Yeah, um.

Speaker 3:

So you want to identify um. You want to identify um. You want to identify people that are doing something that interests you. So it might be somebody that's working in a role that interests you. It might be somebody who's working in a company that interests you. It might be somebody who has knowledge of a sector. Um, then you want to.

Speaker 3:

What what I what I work with people on doing is actually making a connection with that person over LinkedIn. Or it might be that you know somebody that you know knows that person and then reaching out to them and explaining really clearly but quite succinctly why you find them interesting and could you possibly have a brief meeting with them. So you're asking for their time and information that they would know already. So it might be. You want to be specific about the question that you ask as well.

Speaker 3:

So say, for example, if I was looking to host a podcast, I wanted to turn my career into being a podcast host. I'd look at your LinkedIn profile and the work that you're doing and say, serena, I've been listening to some of your episodes of the Quiet Warrior, I've been considering a career change into podcasting. Could we have a brief conversation around what you enjoy, about what you're doing and what you do every day, and that would help inform my career change decision. So it's a targeted approach where you're making the person aware that you've done your background and research, but also giving them an opportunity to answer that question. But it's a question that they can answer without actually having to do too much work on their side as well.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I'm thinking of all the times when I've reached out to others as well. I think most people come from a thinking or the mindset of generosity and giving back or paying it forward. So when you receive a message like that from someone we don't actually know, but they are interested in our work and they've done some research and we can see where that's going and we know that we can help them with, say, 15 minutes of information and, you know, exchange of ideas, of actually of approaching it, because it gives the person straight away at the idea that you know, I just need to spend 15 minutes, it's not a big thing, it's not going to take hours and hours and I know exactly what this person needs from me and I can actually help them with it.

Speaker 3:

That's exactly right. People are generous and the people that will respond are people that actually value themselves. So they think that they've got some. They're worthy of being asked. It sounds a little bit weird, but if you don't think that what you're doing is of any value or you don't enjoy your job, you won't understand why other people will reach out and ask you that same question. So people are definitely generous not everybody, um, and it's also you're kind of I look at it like you're giving that person the gift of your interest. Do you know what I mean? So if you're genuinely interested in, in what they're doing, then you're giving them an opportunity to talk about themselves and share that.

Speaker 3:

So what we found with the straight to shortlist challenge is you get between 40 to 60% of people that say yes to a connection request on LinkedIn and yes to an informational interview. So, but again, you don't. You don't spam people. It works best if say you know in our example. It works best if say you know in our example. I've genuinely enjoyed your podcast and I genuinely believe that you could give me some great information, and that comes across in the sincerity of how you might frame up that message in that email as well.

Speaker 2:

So it's incumbent on the person asking to do their homework and to make sure that they are respecting the other person's time and energy and boundaries.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Which, in any case, it's a prerequisite in all interactions, whether in LinkedIn or elsewhere, isn't it?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Do your homework. Keep it short, keep it sincere. There's a little bit of an art into this. Do your homework, keep it short, keep it sincere make it there's a little bit of an art into this.

Speaker 3:

It's like when you actually ask to meet somebody, you want to frame up what it is that you'd like to know and you want to put that in that message. But it's got to be something that is easier answered face-to-face or on Zoom. So you've got to make it really easy for that other person because you're actually you know it's their time that you're asking for. Basically.

Speaker 2:

True, and time is everything. And also maybe I would circle back as a matter of best practice. I would circle back to thank them and also thank the person who referred me to them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, and you'd be surprised at how many people don't do that, but it's a great way to continue the relationship, as is letting them know how you're progressing along the way.

Speaker 3:

So saying you know, you gave me that great bit of information, I've applied it or I'm thinking about doing this study. Thank you for that advice or I met that person and that was a great interaction. The other thing that you can do is, if you're talking to, say, a potential employer, you can ask them the questions about what skills you know, what skills would you value in a future employee and what skills would you suggest that? Or training or qualifications or skills would you value in a future employee and what skills would you suggest that. Or training or qualifications or skills would you suggest that I could develop to be that future employee? So you're planting yourself on their radar as somebody to keep in mind, and that approach has worked really well with quite a number of people that I've worked with. It's like. It's kind of like you're the pseudo future employee, basically. So you're shaping your career around what it is that that particular employer would value.

Speaker 2:

I think that's a very smart way of going about it. Now, could you tell us a little bit more about this straight to short list challenge that you've mentioned? I mean, just looking at the term itself, it's like some kind of a fast track secret way that you have to help your clients get more interviews. How does that work?

Speaker 3:

So basically what it is is that I developed this after working for a long time with people's resumes and LinkedIn profiles. You always do them with the thing around. You've got to network as well to find a job, but nobody was teaching people how to do that networking piece. Everyone was telling them people that they needed to network. So it's basically a five-step process to take you from knowing nobody in your area of choice to confidently doing informational interviews and creating opportunities for yourself. So starting off with a good LinkedIn profile, then working out who it is that you should be connected with, and then making those connections and running those informational interviews. And at the end of that, I mean informational interviewing is awkward but it's a fantastic skill to have going forward if you want to manage your career, basically, and build a network.

Speaker 2:

So there's no avoiding the networking thing, even if you're introverted and hate small talk and don't like meeting people. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3:

Serena, I'm sorry to all your listeners, but you can make that easy for yourself. Do you know what I mean? Or easier for yourself? I mean, everybody finds it awkward to start off with. You know, what I do as well, like in my business, is make sure that I'm regularly networking so I can go through that experience and you know, talk about what are some of the things that make it easier. But, yeah, at some point you've got to come out away from the screen or you know you want to be able to eyeball people in some way.

Speaker 3:

And there are ways to make it easier for yourself. I think you know, going back to that point, around finding people that genuinely interest you, that you find genuinely interesting. The conversation is going to flow better that way. Or being more strategic you know who's out there that is really well connected. That could help you. So you're not just having meetings with people for the sake of it and exhausting yourself. The other thing, too, is that I think I might be a cliche and you can correct me, but you know introverts are good listeners. So setting up the meeting with what? The purpose of an informational interview is to get the other person talking. So you know you structure it with an introduction and you have your questions planned out that are questions that are designed to get the other person talking rather than you expending all of that energy as well. So that's from an informational interview perspective. But you know there are other ways to get out and about and meet people, um that you can follow up um on as well.

Speaker 3:

So um but yeah, it's about you be used to all those great strengths that you have as an introvert, great listener, strategic, um, you know those sorts of strengths to actually plan out the way that you're going to do it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I, I love that that, the idea being that you don't have to pretend to be something you're going to do it. Yes, I love that that, the idea being that you don't have to pretend to be something you're not or you know, suddenly go out and try to act like somebody else. It's actually about leveraging your own quiet strengths and listening and strategy and detail. And what was the other one? Curiosity you mentioned following your curiosity to see, you know whose work you're interested in or who's doing things that you never thought of doing, and you really like the angle they're approaching it from, and so I think when you're driven by your curiosity, people pick up that vibe as well. You said earlier on that we like people who show an interest in our work and in what we do, and that already will sort of thaw the ice a little bit, isn't it? Yeah?

Speaker 3:

And the beautiful thing about this is and maybe it is something that puts people off from doing it particularly if you're introverted. You're not really selling yourself, you're not really doing the elevator pitch. You might get asked what you're interested in looking at or you know a little bit about you, but that's not the purpose of it. You can go and meet anybody that you like, just with curiosity about what they do. It's a beautiful human trait to have that curiosity, because so many times you know everybody puts up a front about what they should be, but just to have somebody who's talking to, somebody who's actually genuinely interested in them, it's refreshing and you know it comes across basically.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and it's beautiful. It's perfect for the introvert, because we don't like the spotlight on ourselves. We're quite happy to let the other person do all the talking and we do the listening and that works really well, because most people like to talk about themselves much more than they realize. Well, because most people like to talk about themselves much more than they realize, and when you have an avid audience there, someone who is really actively listening in that empathetic manner, I think it's it just works out really well for both and there's a saying with all of this and I wish I could say it's mine, but it's not.

Speaker 3:

It's you know, seek a job and you get advice. Seek advice and you get a job. And it's really because, because you know you're showing that interest in that other person, you're not going in and trying to sell yourself to somebody who doesn't want to be sold to or doesn't have the problems that you can solve. Do you know what I mean? It's like when you sit back and it is a sales technique and it's a great sales technique. And they say you know, the better sales people are, the better listeners. So I think that's why that advice holds.

Speaker 2:

Now I see from your profile that you help people tap into the hidden job market. Tell us more about this hidden job market. How do we access it? You know, the statistics I read were that it's what 85% of vacancies are actually in the hidden job market. So how is one supposed to go finding them? It's such a great question.

Speaker 3:

I don't know that statistic. I hear 80%, 70%, 85%. I don't know what is the number or even if that number has been researched. But the hidden job market is basically. I like to think of it as jobs that sit inside people's heads, perhaps before they get advertised or while they're being advertised. So how you access it is along the lines of you know what we've discussed getting out and about and meeting people in an industry or a job that interests you, because then you know you can say I'm in the market for such and such a job and then the next time that job comes up, you know they might mention you.

Speaker 3:

If you've met somebody for an informational interview, you're putting yourself on the radar because quite often you know they might mention you. If you've met somebody for an informational interview, you're putting yourself on the radar because quite often you know, as jobs are being advertised, you know a manager of a team or an organisation might say hey, does anybody know anybody? And if you've had a meeting with somebody or dropped somebody a message, you might be the first person that they reach out to. So you know, because organisations are looking to save on their recruitment costs. They also. There's a lot of research around how employee referrals so people that are referred or recommended to an organisation are more likely are better fits for that organisation and also, you know, stay longer within that organisation. So employers are actually, you know, looking for people, looking to widen their channels of how they attract people through their existing employees as well.

Speaker 3:

So that's the hidden job market. It's basically that you found that job another way than going through an advertisement, basically, and you can use that knowledge to your advantage. You know that the person that you might be meeting might actually have a problem that you can solve or a job that's in their mind for you as well while you're talking to them. The other way to do it is basically just get know, just get out and about to do things that really interest you. You know, I go for an early morning swim often and I never thought that I'd find like-minded individuals in terms of professionally in that group and it turns out. You know, there's a couple of HR managers that live in the next street to me that I didn't know about. So even you know, going while you're looking for a job or putting yourself out there is just go and do some things that you enjoy, because you never know who you're going to meet and you never know what they've got going on in terms of their head, in terms of opportunities and things like that.

Speaker 2:

So basically expanding your realm of what's possible without constantly fixating on the work aspect, just living your life, enjoying yourself, expanding your connections and your network as you go, and doing it in a way that's organic, I guess, and realistic for you too in terms of your time and energy.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, something that actually fills the cup too. You know, yeah, something that actually fills the cup too. You know so, and I always like to think you know those opportunities. Sometimes they take time, but sometimes they can happen really quickly. You want to be doing something that enables you to get to know somebody else. You know whether it's like a knitting circle or a book club or a swim, a ride, a bushwalk. You know where. You've got those opportunities over more of a length of time to have a good conversation as well. But what you do is you see people outside the work context and they work out whether they like you and you like them, and then it becomes much more of an organic thing around whether an opportunity comes up. Basically, you're seeing them in a completely different context to what you would do if you're seeing them more formally.

Speaker 2:

And also I think the energy is different when you are, you know, we are really hyper-focused on just the career development aspect and you're talking to a person from that angle as opposed to seeing the person in a wider perspective of you know, a human being who also happens to be in this sector that you're interested in. And I think the energy when you communicate that way, in that relaxed, you know, everyday kind of a way, is much more attractive and less intimidating or less annoying.

Speaker 3:

Never annoying Serena, yeah, it is. They're seeing all of you. You know, say, if you're going for a bushwalk and you give somebody a hand up over a rock or hand down, I mean they're seeing you as your entire personality, as you are seeing them as well, you as your entire personality, as you are seeing them as well, and you make more genuine connections, or make genuine connections that way, because you're seeing people, yeah, as the whole human that they are, and you know you work with the whole human. You're not just working with a set of skills on a resume.

Speaker 2:

Beautiful. Now, how do you find your way into a new industry if you're someone who is contemplating a career change? And you don't want to spend, say you know, for another four years going back to university you don't want to spend tons of money. How do you go about that intelligently?

Speaker 3:

it's a really good question because a lot of people, when they want to change their career, the first thing they think about is, well, I better go and requalify. And then it's like, oh God, I've got to do three years and it can put you off. But that is one of the first questions that people think about, or first things that people do is think about going to do study. But there are ways to use that strategically. Study, but there are ways to use that strategically.

Speaker 3:

One of the people on my Straight to Shortlist challenge recently was a product planning manager for an online business and she wanted to change her direction into supply chain and she realised that she needed she thought that she needed to do some qualifications for that, so she had a look to see who'd actually finished that qualification working in supply chain.

Speaker 3:

She used LinkedIn for that and she reached out and said, hey, I'm contemplating doing this study. I see that you've done it and that you're working in supply chain. Was it useful to you? Can I ask you a few questions around that? And actually from those conversations, she had a job forwarded to her that somebody recommended that she should apply for, so you may not need to requalify Sometimes in having those sorts of conversations you might get an opportunity, and then it's like, well, we can offer you a job, but you need to be doing this course at this time as well. So I would adopt that approach Look around to see what you think you might enjoy, but before you commit to it, use it as an opportunity to ask a few questions and meet a few people around that.

Speaker 2:

So, once again, it's the strategy and putting some thought and some research into what is it you want to do.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, because there's nothing worse than you know. I'll probably be shot down by a lot of universities when I say this, but you get. They promote the employability, they promote the new career aspect of the study. That's what you get. You know the reason that you might do that as an adult professional. But at the end of that study most people have the question around. They either start from the beginning in that particular profession or they have a really big question around how can I combine the skills that I already have with this study?

Speaker 2:

that means that I don't have to start at the bottom and a lot of people really struggle with that, that aspect yes, especially if you're doing it as a, you know, as a mature adult, you know it's a different season of life, much different considerations. You want some flexibility around that and you also want to make the most of the work experience and life experience you've already accumulated.

Speaker 3:

I also also talk to people around. Well, if you're doing study and you're needing to do some sort of work-related research project, again there's an opportunity to connect with people who are already doing that role or connect with businesses that might benefit from the information that you're putting together or researching or you know. So there's an opportunity while you're studying to get your feelers out in terms of employers that might use that kind of research that you're doing or that project that you're doing as well. Obviously, that's not in every profession, but I've used that technique myself.

Speaker 3:

You know, many years ago I did a post-grad qualification in tourism and my final year research project was researching St Kilda as a tourist destination. So I reached out to the community director of tourism of St Kilda council at the time and went and interviewed him for the project and then when I finished, I sent him my research report and at the end of that I just said you know, if you've got any opportunities, I really love St Kilda as a destination, love working on this. If any opportunities come up that you could see with my set of skills, I'd love to be considered and I got a short-term project from that. So so you know you can be quite smart in the way that you might. You know you conduct your study and use your study as a way to connect with people as well in a genuine way. You know that example. I was really interested in what I was doing and interested in St Kilda and you know various things, so it worked really nicely. And interested in St Kilda and various things.

Speaker 2:

So it worked really nicely. And also because you'd already put forward your side of the transaction, if you call it that, by giving first, because you offered them a research report and they can do something with it. They can study it, they can improve their processes with it, they might innovate and come up with something new thanks to your study findings. So you gave them something first. So I think it encourages that reciprocity as well.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Yeah, I think people shy away from networking because they and quite often it is you can't get away from it. It initially is a one-way transaction. It's you're seeking something you know time, advice or whatever from that other person and it feels awkward to ask People, as we've discussed do say yes to that. But as you go along in that relationship, you've got to look for ways to actually add back, give back to that person. You know it may even just be a funny article that you've read, or you know an introduction, or just you know it may even just be a funny article that you've read, or you know an introduction, or just you know finding some some way to um, genuinely, you know, add value to their life as well.

Speaker 2:

yes, I think, when we're looking more outside ourselves and how can I be of service to you, is there something I can do for you right now? Is there something I can support you with right now? That kind of an energy is also very attractive.

Speaker 3:

And sometimes it's not appropriate. Sometimes you know that person might be so far more successful than you, or you know five rungs up the career ladder that it's not appropriate. It's a more genuine kind of mentoring relationship. But, yeah, it's good to look for those opportunities and I suppose, just on that note, you know they're the type of people that you want to keep informed of what you're doing and how you're acting on their advice. Even that's a bit of a gift, because you know everybody likes to know that the sage advice that they've handed out has actually been acted on and that you're taking that gift of their time, basically, and using it yes, and you're paying it forward too by using it and helping other people, and I think that's very gratifying and very encouraging for the person that has mentored you or has given you their time absolutely so.

Speaker 2:

How do people work with you in the Straight to Shortlist Challenge, carolyn?

Speaker 3:

So it is a combination of self-paced learning and small group coaching over Zoom. So there's videos that you would watch that take you through step by step, for example, to build up your LinkedIn profile, and then there's review meetings over Zoom, for accountability, for answering questions, for meeting a network, that type of thing.

Speaker 2:

And would there also be opportunities for them to like do some live calls with you where you do some role plays or coach them through the process?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely so, depending on what, what people need at that time. I think the thing that people find most difficult is that idea about um, you know, reaching out to people that they don't know and connecting with them. So quite often we might role play an informational interview, um to make to take that kind of uh fear out of it. Basically, I did a role play with one group, which was I was informationally interviewing them right, because there's awkwardness around asking people. So I picked some things out of their experience that I was interested in and I did information interviews with them and then I said so how did that go?

Speaker 3:

Did you feel that I was some sort of strange weirdo asking you these questions? And all of them said, no, I wanted to offer you a job. So you know, like it's like there's great ways to actually flip the script and flip the scenario, to go you know, this is what the other person is thinking. You know, really, putting yourself in the shoes of the person that you're meeting to understand what they're thinking, they're not thinking that how dare you find me interesting.

Speaker 2:

basically, I think it's wonderful what you do, Carolyn, to support career changers and job seekers. So if you're listening to this episode and you know someone who is in need of some guidance through this career change process or their job search process, who needs some help with informational interviewing, do reach out to Carolyn. All her details are in the show notes attached to this episode.

Speaker 3:

Carolyn, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom in the space of work and thank you for all that you do to support job seekers it's an absolute pleasure really, really enjoyed our chats, so, and I really appreciate the time that you've spent with me and putting my work out to your audience as well.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, and that is another episode of the quiet warrior podcast. See you on the next one. I'm so grateful that you're here today. If you found this content valuable, please share it on your social media channels and subscribe to the show on your favorite listening platform. Together, we can help more introverts thrive. To receive more uplifting content like this, connect with me on Instagram at Serena Lo Quiet Warrior Coach. Thank you for sharing your time and your energy with me. See you on the next episode.