The Quiet Warrior Podcast with Serena Low

60. Ethical Selling and Sales Confidence for Introverts with Ben Lai

• Serena Low, Introvert Coach for Quiet Achievers and Quiet Warriors

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Episode Summary:

I sat down with Ben Lai, founder of Sales Ethos, to explore the subject of sales and introversion. Ben shares his journey from nursing to becoming a sales expert, driven by his goal of professional speaking and his desire to care for people. He discusses the misconceptions people, especially introverts, have about sales, and how ethical selling aligned with personal values can lead to long-term success. Ben and I dive deep into how introverts can find their voice in the sales world, balance assertiveness with humility, and remain true to their values while thriving in business.

Key Topics:

  • Ben’s background: from nursing to sales
  • The meaning behind the term "Sales Ethos" and why values matter in business
  • Why introverts struggle with sales and how to overcome it
  • How to sell ethically without feeling "pushy"
  • The importance of detaching from the sales outcome
  • Building confidence by reflecting on past successes
  • Balancing assertiveness with humility in sales
  • Sales techniques rooted in psychology
  • The role of mindset in becoming an effective salesperson

Memorable Quotes:

  • “Sales is service; it’s not about manipulation.”
  • “Ethical sales are the key to long-term success.”
  • “Believe in yourself, and if you can’t yet, borrow someone else’s belief in you.”
  • “Our prospective clients will believe in us to the degree that we believe in ourselves.”

Guest Bio:

Ben Lai is the founder of Sales Ethos, a business dedicated to teaching ethical sales techniques grounded in personal values. With a background in nursing, Ben combines his passion for helping others with his sales expertise to help introverts and entrepreneurs excel in sales without compromising their integrity.

Connect with Ben Lai:

Call to Action:

If you enjoyed this episode, take 5 seconds to rate and review it, and share it with someone who might benefit from Ben Lai’s insights. 


This episode was edited by Aura House Productions

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Serena Loh. If you're used to hearing that introverts are shy, anxious, antisocial and lack good communication and leadership skills, then this podcast is for you. You're about to fall in love with the calm, introspective and profound person that you are. Discover what's fun, unique and powerful about being an introvert, and how to make the elegant transition from quiet achiever to quiet warrior in your life and work anytime you want, in more ways than you imagined possible. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Quiet Warrior podcast.

Speaker 1:

Today we want to talk about a subject that brings a little fear and trembling into maybe not just introverts, but everyone in general, and that is the subject of sales. How do we get good at sales? What is sales actually? Why do we get so nervous when we hear the word sales and that we have to do some selling? What are some of these typical assumptions we make about people who are in sales, and how does that affect the way we run our businesses and how we project ourselves professionally? So to help us today I have Benjamin Lai from Sales Ethos. Ben welcome to the Quiet Warrior podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me, Serena.

Speaker 1:

Ben, I'm really curious have you always been in sales?

Speaker 2:

Goodness? No, absolutely not. Yeah, my career started in nursing and my main motivation for going into that profession was just I liked the idea of caring for people for a living idea of caring for people for a living. So that's kind of my personality. The reason that I went into sales was purely out of necessity, and what actually happened was that my long-term goal has always been to do professional speaking and educating. The idea is that I can use the platform to impact as many people as possible, and I realized along the way that if I wanted to go down that pathway, I would need to start my own business. And if I'm going to start my own business, one of the core skills required is sales.

Speaker 2:

Now, at that time, I had zero sales skills. In fact, I would probably have negative sales skills, if that's if there's such a thing, because I'm a natural introvert. On top of that, I'm also a people pleaser Like I. To put into perspective, I literally cannot sleep at night if I think I've upset someone. That's the kind of person I am. So I went into sales completely out of necessity and struggled my way through until I became good at it and started calming that part of my brain down that said, you don't have to make everyone happy. And then the rest is history.

Speaker 1:

That's brilliant. And tell me why you picked the word ethos? Because ethos to me usually represents something to do with values or character or the traits of a person. So what does sales ethos mean to you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sure, the word ethos actually goes back to the ancient Greek language and the original meaning is the way that we do things. So it's about the culture, it's about your values. But since then it's kind of evolved and developed to also mean that the way that we do things is through ethical means. So my commitment right from the beginning, since I entered into the sales profession, was that I would never compromise on my Christian values while trying to be successful at the same time. And I discovered something very interesting it is by holding onto those values and holding that integrity that you unlock the ability to have long-term success. People who try to shortcut the process, who try to rip people off the lie, cheat and steal in order to get the sale, will falter in the long term. They may get some quick wins if they're lucky, but it's definitely not a long-term strategy. So that's where it came from.

Speaker 1:

That's really interesting. I love how you've infused your personal values and beliefs into the way you operate, the way you run your business, because isn't the business an extension of ourselves?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and that's how we can bring. Each of us can bring our unique value to the marketplace, because there is only one, serena Lowe, there is only one, ben Lai, and, yes, there might be other sales trainers out there, but we bring something unique to the marketplace by being ourselves.

Speaker 1:

I love that. So you've mentioned helping others, taking care of others and then transitioning into sales. Tell me, how does that connect? Still for you in your business, now that your focus is on helping people to sell better, how is that also a way of caring for others or taking care of?

Speaker 2:

others. Yeah, that's a really great question. The two concepts, selling and helping, often don't go together, which is unfortunate, because the actual original meaning of the word sales is service, if you look at the entomology of the word. And so, from that perspective, what I teach my clients, what I always embody myself, is to view the sales process as a way of helping people, whether they buy or not. So, in the same way, serena, I'm sure that when you're consulting with a potential client, you ask them a whole bunch of questions, right? And what do you find Like when you're asking people questions about their current situation? How is it that they get value from you as a result of the sales process?

Speaker 1:

I think it's because I structure my questions in such a way to help them, to make it easy for them to filter themselves in or out. So I'm not attached to the outcome of whether they say yes or no. I'm more interested in helping you find whether you are a right fit for this thing. So I'm not persuading you, you are persuading yourself and I'm simply offering you the scenarios offering you the scenarios.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and that's brilliant, and it's exactly what I would teach my clients as well. You've instinctively taken on a lot of what I teach, so, yeah, you're absolutely right. Allowing people to persuade themselves by asking them targeted questions is a way to actually help them to gain clarity on what it is that they really want, and I think that's one of the ways that I constantly get feedback from my prospects that just the sales process in itself was valuable From that perspective. We should always feel good about it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I think that already takes a lot of the pressure off, because when you talked about people pleasing and that inability to sleep at night because you feel that you let someone down, I mean I can relate to that as well and one part of you know, in the early days of my business, this whole thing to do with sales and marketing bothered me so much because I felt like I was being forced to be some pushy kind of person trying to railroad people to take a certain stance, and that was against my nature, because I didn't want to have people say yes at all costs and for everyone to say yes, because as time went by, I realized not everyone is the right person to work with or this may not be the right time.

Speaker 1:

So, I think, like what you said, that aspect of feeling safe to, to be able to say no, but and to also not people, please, you know. So actually, the it sounds to me like what you're focusing on is actually the best interests of your client.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, absolutely, and I actually have just made that into a policy, absolutely, and I actually have just made that into a policy which I run my business by. It's called the best interest policy and essentially it's looking at things from the perspective of it's either going to be win-win or no deal. Referring to Steve Covey's seven habits, he talks about always seeking win-win. I think that's a really great policy to have. But the important thing is this right, you mentioned that you don't want to be too pushy. So in your own self-assessment, how do you feel like you fit in on the scale? Because on the one hand, we have being completely passive, on the other side, we have being aggressive. On the other side, we have being aggressive and somewhere in the middle is a sweet spot of being assertive. So where do you feel you sit on that spectrum?

Speaker 1:

I think I started off as being completely passive because I just gave up on the idea I can never do this. I'm an introvert, I can't sell, I can't be the aggressive person and I don't like how it makes me feel when I'm on the other end. Therefore, let me be passive. But then, of course, I realized that passive means no sales and no sales aggressive person, and I don't like how it makes me feel when I'm on the other end. Therefore, let me be passive. But then, of course, I realized that passive means no sales and no sales means no business. So then I had to go looking for that sweet spot. Where is this magical balance between being assertive and being completely passive? And while I've not completely arrived, I think I'm a lot closer to it these days, and simply by focusing more on the other person's point of view, where they are in their journey, what exactly do they need now? And just getting curious and asking all those questions without getting attached to the outcome.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah and that really puts them, that makes them feel so safe that they feel that I can trust you. I can tell you things.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, actually, funnily enough, just this week I posted one of my videos about detaching from the outcome Right, and it's such an important concept because it lowers your own desperation and gets rid of this thing that we call commission breath when you're talking to your clients, rid of this thing that we call commission breath when you're talking to your clients. So the more desperate you are, the more you're going to repel people, but the more detached you are with the exception of really caring about the outcome for the client then the more trustworthy and the more a person can feel like they can open up to you. So it sounds like you're very close, if not already there, in striking that balance.

Speaker 1:

But I'm curious to know from a sales trainer perspective, Ben, how do you teach people to move towards finding that sweet spot?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a good question. It all starts with mindset. So, firstly, we have to deal with three key areas. One is our mindset around money, then secondly around business and then thirdly around selling. Each of us have a certain upbringing which will color our perception about all three. Now, what I usually find with my clients is that the ones who have wealthy parents oftentimes they're entrepreneurial parents. These people have no trouble with their money mindsets or their business mindsets, but people who had parents who really struggled, you know, they say things like money doesn't grow on trees and they're always about working harder in order to earn money.

Speaker 2:

And then there's a lot of. Even from a religious perspective, some people falsely believe that money is the root of all evil. Now, again, referring to the Bible, the actual reference is the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Big difference when you get so obsessed about money that you start hurting other people to get it. That's when it becomes really unhealthy. But from that perspective, once you fix up these mindsets, then it allows you, it unlocks your ability to sell more effectively. And then, just going on to sales, if you believe that sales is something that you do for people, as a service to people, then you're going to be much more comfortable being assertive in the sales process. From there it's mostly like once you have the intention in place, the skills are very easy to implement, and then you can strike that balance much easier.

Speaker 1:

once you have that foundation in place, so we talked about mindset and we talked about skills. And you're saying skills is the easy part, because that's something we can pick up and we can get better at, just like learning anything new. So why is it that, particularly with introverts, they feel such an aversion to the idea of putting themselves out there, letting people know what they're doing and inviting people to work with them?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I believe that the root of that comes from our self-perception, and particularly around our idea of what humility is right. So humility is often thought of as not being able to boast about yourself. It's about deflecting compliments. You know, when someone says, oh, good job, serena, then you say, oh no, it was nothing, it wasn't. You know, it was luck or it was something else. You don't take ownership of the value that you have brought in that situation.

Speaker 2:

But true humility, if you think about it, is having an accurate self-assessment. So here's the funny thing. A funny quirk about people is that we are very, very bad at estimating our actual level of competence. In psychology it's called the Dunning-Kruger effect. So what it means is that for people who are actually quite intelligent, they are constantly looking at people who are better than themselves and so they feel inadequate.

Speaker 2:

And then on the other end of the spectrum, you've got people who are genuinely incompetent and they think that they're very competent. So most of the people that I talk to, they fit on onto that higher end, and so that's the reason that we tend to downplay our significance or the impact that we can have on clients, and this can be naturally remedied throughout time as you serve more and more clients and to increase that self-perception and that confidence. But it takes a lot of introspection, as well as self-reflection, in order to properly put that foundation in place. Let me put it this way, serena, when thinking about the client that you have impacted the most what was their situation like before they worked with you? What was their situation like before they worked with you and what was their situation like after they worked with you?

Speaker 1:

So when they first came to me, typically they would be quite lacking in self-confidence, full of doubt, constantly overthinking it and questioning their worth, their abilities. And after they work with me they usually realize hang on, actually I've got a lot of strengths. It's just that they are the quieter kind of strengths that you know. Because we are in an extrovert bias culture, they might be overlooked. Those strengths are not valued as much. But once they learn how to tap into those strengths, start showcasing, using them much more and taking ownership, like you say, embracing those strengths and being proud that you know, hey, I'm actually pretty cool, you know, because I'm a good listener, I'm a good communicator, I really pay attention to details, I'm very careful with my work. And then they discover they've got actually a pretty long list of things that they can genuinely be proud of, without feeling like, oh, I've got to cringe or apologize or get defensive or anything the minute somebody compliments me. So it's a very different energy once they realize that.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic. And then how did that client then benefit from finding that extra confidence, like what tangibly was the difference in their workplace?

Speaker 1:

For them in their workplace. It meant being able to speak up, being able to actually articulate their views and say this is how I feel, or let me come back to you because I need to think about this, and then I'll come back to you with a solution. So it's coming up with more self-empowering ways to respond to people instead of their usual instinctive response.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic. So when reflecting about that particular client, how does it feel, even just recounting the story? What are you feeling on the inside?

Speaker 1:

I'm feeling so proud of them.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic, fantastic. Okay, now here's another thing when it comes to our level of confidence as as introverts, there's another psychological trick that's at work that's preventing us from promoting ourselves and to be as assertive as we need to be. And I'm not sure what, what the label for this is called, but but we have a tendency as human beings to evaluate ourselves based on only the last few weeks of performance. So that means if you serve that client, say, two years ago, your brain has already kind of forgotten the feeling that you achieved that absolutely fantastic result for them, them. And let's just say, you had a down month in June, which myself and some colleagues we were saying amongst ourselves, with economic times it's been a bit tough. So the problem with our brain is that it's going to look at that month and then make us feel according to that month, according to that month. So the cure for that is to reflect and to look back and revisit all of the great stuff that we have accomplished, to raise that level of confidence and confidence back to where it's supposed to be, and then that then allows us to be as assertive as we need to be.

Speaker 2:

Now I just had another quick comment, because you were mentioning the extroverts and our extrovert culture, there's another really important principle for us, as introverts, to remember, and that is that our prospective clients will believe in us to the degree that we believe in ourselves. Right? What that means is there are a lot of genuinely incompetent people out in the marketplace, right? So we mentioned the two ends of the spectrum, but for some reason, these guys are really good at communicating. They have a crappy product or a crappy service, but they're really good at marketing and they're really good at selling. Because they're really good at selling, because they convey themselves with confidence and people buy into that confidence. So, then, for us as introverts who are genuinely good at what we do, we have a moral responsibility to properly represent ourselves and prevent them from making the mistake of working with these charlatans, these unethical providers who promise the world and then deliver very little. So we have a responsibility to really promote ourselves if we genuinely believe in what we do.

Speaker 1:

You've said a lot of different things in there and suddenly I had a picture of Avengers or superheroes of some kind you know us quiet ones flying in to save the day. The thing is, why is it that people are so easily entranced by those with the big personalities, the big voices, the ones who are really charming and charismatic?

Speaker 2:

I think that goes back to biology and neurology. It is what it is. We have these tendencies. All we can do is observe how the human brain and how human psychology works. We know that from observation that people tend to buy in with people who are charismatic, right and who have extroverted personalities. And, mind you, there are so many different factors that influence a person's trust in another. Even things like the way that we dress has a very big impact on our perception of a person and how much we trust them. Another one is called beauty bias. The more beautiful you are or the more handsome you are, the more people are going to trust what you say. Now, if you think about it, there's absolutely no connection whatsoever between how we look and the results that we can provide, but nevertheless we are aware of these things and therefore we take care of our appearance so that that is not a stumbling block for people doing business with us.

Speaker 1:

You've reminded me of a book. The author's name escapes me at the moment, but I remember the title very clearly it's called Predictably Irrational. He was talking about human nature and how, just like you described, we fall for those things that the logical mind would not fall for, but somehow there is something in us that instinctively just goes for certain things. So, even though there would be red flags and in our calmer state we might not be so quick to say yes to those kinds of people, but somehow in the moment they just seem really persuasive and they somehow convince us that they are the right solution, they have the right answer, that product is perfect for us and there will never be a better time.

Speaker 2:

That's right, and the marketers and the salespeople out there are fully aware of all of these factors and they will exploit them as much as they can.

Speaker 2:

So increasing our awareness of those factors not only protects ourselves from being duped, but it also allows us to be a little bit more strategic with the way that we promote ourselves, which is where we actually get into a very gray area when it comes to ethical persuasion versus manipulation.

Speaker 2:

Right and just as a quick definition, if you want to avoid manipulation, you must start with number one the intent, your intent for using any of these psychological strategies is to benefit the other person and not for only selfish gain. So, going back to the win-win as long as there is a win-win, it is okay to use these techniques. Now there is one more criteria. The other criteria is that it must not in any way interfere with the other person's autonomy, their ability to choose. So you still have to allow the person enough psychological space to make an informed decision, and that means not using high pressure tactics, and it also means not using fear tactics in order to get a person to buy from you. So it is unfortunately a bit of a gray area, but at the very minimum, we should be aware of these things so that we're not preventing people from doing business with us.

Speaker 1:

I like how you emphasize that we are being aware, so that we can remove these stumbling blocks that are in the way of us working with certain people, with certain people, and the idea of also being ethical, as opposed to the not manipulating people, but being ethical because we want the best for them and we are helping them. So we are actually. Actually, we do need to be masters of sales psychology, then. So what is sales psychology to you as a sales trainer?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, look, I think it's predominantly being aware of how people think and how people make decisions. Coming from a medical science background, we learn about all of these persuasion tactics and psychology and all the clinical studies that prove them. We then have an ethical responsibility to make sure that we don't abuse these techniques. But as long as you abide by those two initial guidelines, you should be in the safe zone, and I think for most of us, our intention right from the beginning is to help people anyway. So I would probably suggest that we can be a little bit more brave to use these psychological techniques, because we know that we are still looking out for people's benefits at the end of the day. I might just add one more thing on top of that, serena. So you mentioned before that before you engage with a client, you're asking a lot of questions, right? This is what I call the due diligence phase. So when a person is deciding whether to work with you, they're going to check you out. They're going to look at your LinkedIn profile, your website, to see how credible you are. They're doing their due diligence, but you, as a service provider, also have a responsibility to do your due diligence on the person that you're speaking to. So if it so happens that the person is not a good fit and you cannot foreseeably give them the outcome that they're looking for, then you have the responsibility to say to the person I don't think we should work together.

Speaker 2:

So don't forget all the psychological persuasion techniques. You tell them I don't think we should work together. And having the guts to do that is hard. If you're coming from a scarcity mindset, if you're just starting out your business for the first time, you've got very little money in the bank, you've got no income. It's very, very hard to do. I'll have to confess it was hard for me as well. But the more you commit to that, the more credibility you're going to build with others and the more trustworthy you're going to be perceived as. So that's how I would suggest you go about in the sales process.

Speaker 1:

I like that concept. We're auditioning each other, so it's also about self-responsibility. Just as a client has the responsibility to find the best solution or service provider that they can, based on their circumstances, we too are finding the best client that we can get the outcomes for and that it would also be a pleasure to work with for the long term that's right.

Speaker 2:

It has to be win-win or no deal yes, I think that's a good one.

Speaker 1:

Now, how do you apply your sales framework in the workplace to help people who have trouble putting themselves out there, speaking up appropriately, who feel that they're constantly being overshadowed or talked over?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a great question, and the interesting thing about sales training and sales skills is that they so easily transfer to any other situation. And what I'm trying to say to people more nowadays is that if you want to be a high performing salesperson and if you want to be a quality salesperson, you need to be a quality human being, you need to be a good person, you need to be able to genuinely care about other people and to convey that sense of empathy and compassion for others. Otherwise, imagine this if you meet someone they're using all the sales techniques in the book, all the psychological techniques in the book, but you get a little bit of a niggling feeling that this person is only self-interested. They're just trying to get their commission. At the end of the day, all of these sales techniques will come across as manipulative and unethical, which brings me back to that point about the intent being the most important thing, that point about the intent being the most important thing. So, for the people in the workplace, learning sales skills will help you to listen better.

Speaker 2:

Introverts are generally pretty good at listening right, so we usually don't have a problem with that. Asking better questions, being able to present yourself and your ideas better, being able to hold yourself in a certain way. Self-image psychology is a really important part of salesmanship, so this is one of the areas that I'm trying to help my clients with right now to help them to increase how they see themselves, because how you see yourself is how you portray yourself to others, and how you portray yourself to others affects how much they believe in you. So, learning the skills but, most importantly, changing the way that you see yourself If you learn salesmanship, you will improve not only in the self-perception, but you'll also improve in the actual, tangible skills as well.

Speaker 1:

So that's back to awareness, and that's again mindset, and then the element of skills and practice and building up that confidence on a gradual level, because the more you try, the more you attempt, the more you push, the more practice you get under your belt, and so you refine the way you present yourself to the world. So who are the people that you love working with? Are they more like companies, organizations, or are they more individual persons?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, ultimately, when I work with teams, it is still technically working with individuals, and that's the way that I see every client that while they might be part of a group, every person needs their individual help to improve their sales skills. My favorite demographic to work with are the entrepreneurs, especially the solopreneurs. They're out there, putting themselves out there. Oftentimes they lack the self-confidence. Now here's a funny story. There was a time when I first went out that I was selling sales training and but the irony was my sales approach was horrible. It was absolutely cringeworthy. I would go into these sales meetings and be an absolute nervous wreck saying that I can help you to increase your sales, but my sales process was horrible. Now the question is, why? Why was it horrible? It was horrible because I was selling myself as the product. Previously I was selling the company's products right and I could present that really well. But once it becomes about you and the value that you can bring others, then that's where the self-sabotage comes in. So one of the common things that I do with the entrepreneur space is not only helping them with their sales skills, but also to find the confidence to present themselves and to, more importantly, to charge what they're worth.

Speaker 2:

One of the things that solopreneurs constantly do is that they charge way too little for what they are providing. They provide all this value, but then they charge this much for it, right? So helping those, the entrepreneurs, to significantly increase their prices Most of them, I help them to double their prices, sometimes even triple their prices up to market rates. I'm not a fan of overcharging, okay, so just as a disclaimer yeah, the entrepreneurs I absolutely love working with them to help them to increase their revenue, and for the individual, it's a massive impact. Like imagine Serena, like, if we doubled your revenue in the next 12 months, what would that mean for you and your family?

Speaker 1:

It would definitely mean more, you and your family.

Speaker 2:

It would definitely mean more holidays, more eating out, all the fun things. Yeah, it opens a lot more options and you don't have to be so strict about I'll say, oh, we can't because of these restrictions. Yeah, it's very liberating to have some money left over. But here's another quick, important point With all of that extra funds, what charitable causes would you support, Serena?

Speaker 1:

I've got a list and it's very hard to pick one, but I would think something like Doctors Without Borders.

Speaker 2:

Ah, ah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, helping people in remote regions? Yeah, absolutely yeah. So here's a really great philosophy that I've learned from one of my heroes, Jim Rohn. Jim Rohn said earn more than you need so you can help others in need. I think it's such a beautiful phrase earn more than you need so you can help others in need. If we have all of this excess money, very few of us want to buy that house in Turek or that Lamborghini or that luxury yacht. If you really wanted to buy those things, that would be perfectly okay, but most of us don't want those things. That would be perfectly okay, but most of us don't want those things. Most of us, we have causes that we care about, and to earn more so that we can contribute to those things, I think is a noble ambition to have.

Speaker 1:

That's a really good quote. So for any entrepreneurs out there who are listening, especially if you're an introvert as well do remember to reach out to Ben Lai on his website and his LinkedIn profile, all of which we are going to be attaching to the show notes. Now, ben, do you have any last words, any one thing that you want the introverts who are listening to take away from today's chat about sales?

Speaker 2:

One takeaway I would say believe in yourself, believe in yourself. Two years ago I rocked up to this business coach and he was asking me about my goals, and at that time I was only making a very mediocre income from this business. And he asked me what is your goal? And I told him that my goal is to increase my revenue by X amount. It was a very small, modest amount. And then he said you can do way better than that. I thought what do you mean? How much better? He said you can double your business. And I thought really, double? He said yeah, absolutely, work with me and I'll mentor you to help you to double your business. And so I said okay, if you say so.

Speaker 2:

I worked with him for 12 months and, sure enough, through that accountability and that belief that he had in me, I doubled my business in 12 months. But here's the funny thing the following 12 months, without his help, that self-belief stayed with me and I doubled the business yet again. Now here's the funny part, serena, here's the irony. When I had that conversation with that mentor, at that time I had already helped other people increase their businesses by double. I'd done it for other people. There was no reason I couldn't do it for myself. All I needed was someone else to help me to believe that it was possible. And so, as a takeaway message whatever your mind can believe and conceive it can achieve, so believe in yourself. Aim for that double revenue and work towards it.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic. I love that. And I also love that you acknowledged that sometimes, because I can imagine the introvert's first objection to what you said about believing in yourself is but what if I don't believe in myself? What if I haven't got that much self-belief? What if I'm full of doubts and overthinking and so on? And you answered that question too, because you said sometimes you need to borrow someone else's belief in you until you can sustain your own self-belief.

Speaker 1:

And that's the power of mentoring and coaching and having another person come alongside who actually genuinely believes in what you are doing and is there to walk alongside you and encourage you and give you that accountability and that support. And it's wonderful that that's what you are now doing for your clients, and so you know anyone who needs that assistance to gain your self-belief that you can sell. You can sell ethically, you can sell with integrity, you can sell in a way that lets you sleep at night, because you know that you are helping so many other people from a genuine place. And make sure you reach out to Ben at his links below. So, ben, thank you so much for coming on the Quiet Warrior podcast today and sharing with us your sales ethos.

Speaker 2:

It was an absolute pleasure, Serena. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

And that was another episode of the Quiet Warrior podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode with Ben Lai, do remember to rate and review this episode, and also to share it with a friend. See you on the next episode. I'm so grateful that you're here today. If you found this content valuable, please share it on your social media channels and subscribe to the show on your favorite listening platform. Together, we can help more introverts thrive. To receive more uplifting content like this, connect with me on Instagram at Serena Lo Quiet Warrior Coach. Thank you for sharing your time and your energy with me. See you on the next episode.