The Quiet Warrior Podcast with Serena Low

61. Leaving a Lasting Legacy with WishKeeper: Ease Life’s Uncertainties for Your Loved Ones

• Serena Low, Introvert Coach for Quiet Achievers and Quiet Warriors

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In this heartfelt episode of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, my guest Cheryl Lardner (co-founder of Wishkeeper) and I dive into an essential yet often overlooked topic: preparing for life’s uncertainties. 

Wishkeeper is an innovative web app designed to help people organize important life information, documents, and personal wishes to ensure their loved ones are cared for during challenging times. 

Cheryl shares how the tool can ease family burdens, prevent conflicts, and provide peace of mind. Listen as they explore the emotional and practical aspects of organizing your legacy and preparing for life’s unpredictable events.


Key Topics Covered:

1. What is Wishkeeper?

2. The Importance of Organizing Your Legacy

3. Features That Make Wishkeeper Unique

4. Minimizing Family Conflicts Through Clarity

5. Cheryl’s Personal Journey and Business Lessons


Connect with Cheryl Lardner and Learn More About Wishkeeper

  • Visit Wishkeeper’s official website: wishkeeper.com.au for more information, resources, and personal stories about how Wishkeeper is helping families.

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This episode was edited by Aura House Productions

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Serena Loh. If you're used to hearing that introverts are shy, anxious, antisocial and lack good communication and leadership skills, then this podcast is for you. You're about to fall in love with the calm, introspective and profound person that you are. Discover what's fun, unique and powerful about being an introvert, and how to make the elegant transition from quiet achiever to quiet warrior in your life and work anytime you want, in more ways than you imagined possible. Welcome. Welcome to another episode of the Quiet Warrior podcast. Today we want to explore a topic that a lot of us might feel uncomfortable talking about, but a necessary one because everyone experiences it. And I have with me a special guest, cheryl Ladner, the co-founder of Wishkeeper here in Australia. Cheryl, welcome to the Quiet Warrior podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for having me, Serena.

Speaker 1:

Cheryl, can you tell us a little bit more about Wishkeeper? What exactly is it?

Speaker 2:

We get asked this many times and, put simply, wishkeeper is a web app, so it's an online product.

Speaker 2:

We often refer to it as a software product that enables you to be able to consolidate things in your life.

Speaker 2:

When we talk about things in your life, that could be so many different things, but it's really about the information that other people might need in the event something unexpected happens to us or at the time of our passing, and I think it's as you mentioned, serena, at the start. These are definitely themes that most of us want to just really comfortably put our head in the sand and not talk about. So Wishkeeper is a really beautifully designed and crafted product that people can go through and they can really just meander through the different sections of Wishkeeper and it guides you through the whole process, because we're not really equipped to understand how to work through our life, administration, our personal wishes and then sharing that information with people that love us. And I know we'll get more into the way this came about as we continue on, so I don't want to give everything in the first answer, but essentially it is a web app that enables the person to be able to consolidate important documents, their personal wishes, but importantly, make it accessible to their family.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. So this is a web app that helps us get ourselves organized Absolutely Without all the fluster of the unexpected, the emergencies and the things that happen in life, which actually, when you think about it, life is uncertain and anything could happen tomorrow. So this is about getting prepared, and I suppose it's also a way of being self-responsible.

Speaker 2:

I love that description. It is about really being a grown-up and facing the reality that life is unpredictable and things can happen without notice. So often people, when they see what Wishkeeper is about, will immediately think oh, this is for the sick and dying, this is for people that know they're going to die, and we say, yes, of course it is a great tool for that, but none of us know that day and none of us want to think about that day. One of the things we talk about a lot, serena, is, you know, nobody really sets a goal to burden their family or to make their loved one's life more difficult. However, by not having this information in place or not sharing what our wishes are and what we want to our family, we are actually inadvertently doing that, because we don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. So if something was to happen to us, can we sit down and hand on heart saying you know, we've given our family and those we love all the tools that they'll need to be able to get things in order or to be able to continue things on if I'm incapacitated or in hospital, or if something's happened to me, you know, have I made it easy for them?

Speaker 2:

And unfortunately, the reality is that a lot of us the answer to that question is no, and so we wanted to build Wishkeeper so that the answer would be yes and you can honestly spend two hours on your Wishkeeper and save your loved ones potentially five to six weeks of pain trying to navigate their way through the information that you've got in your life and that's mostly kept in your head.

Speaker 2:

That makes it so much more difficult when they're already in a very stressful situation. So it really is something that we've designed to change that behaviour. Changing behaviour is not easy. It's not easy and it's a long journey with Wishkeeper and it's a lot about education. It's also about understanding who Wishkeeper is for and, as I've said, it's a lot about education. It's also about understanding who Wishkeeper is for and, as I've said before, a lot of people go to that conclusion of it is for the aging, our old generation or people that have been given a terminal diagnosis. But it is so much more than that. It is for everyone that wants to equip their loved ones with the tools, the instructions and the information so that, when they're not there sitting next to them holding their hand, they can be through Wishkeeper.

Speaker 1:

Something in particular that I wanted to mention that you have just said, and that is that we carry everything in our heads. We carry a lot of information in our heads and we take it for granted that we carry everything in our heads. We carry a lot of information in our heads and we take it for granted that we will always have the capacity to hold that information cognitively and continue to do so. And you've just reminded us that, because life is uncertain and health situations can change very suddenly, someone could just very quickly lose that ability to recall vital information, and that is why you want to download it somewhere safe where others can access it, and I can get that from a logical point of view.

Speaker 1:

But I'm going to assume that most people, myself included, have got some kind of resistance to the idea of talking about, you know, facing these things head on. You mentioned, you know, being a grown-up and perhaps you know, for some of us, you know, there are aspects of our lives where we don't feel we're grown up yet, we don't want to grow up yet, we don't want to do the you know we don't want to be doing the adult things and of having to face someone's death, having to think about all that planning and what happens after. We just want life to continue as it is now. How do you deal with that kind of resistance? You know, when you educate people.

Speaker 2:

I think it's about being patient with people and allowing people to come around in their own time.

Speaker 2:

It's hard enough to change your own behaviours, let alone try to change somebody else's.

Speaker 2:

So we really embarked on Wishkeeper as an educational tool, and that's why, when you do go into your Wishkeeper and start to explore there's around 40 plus categories in there to get you thinking about some of the things that you might need to get out of your head and into wishkeeper. And we're talking the obvious things like your will or who your power of attorney is, or even your funeral plan, if you do have one. Less and less people are having those. They're becoming again something that not many people are wanting to go down that path because the option feels like to many a very traditional type of funeral, whereas more and more the generation of baby boomers are wanting more of a celebration of life and they're wanting their family to engage in their farewell in a much more positive way. And so, again, wishkeeper gives you that opportunity to be able to really curate some of that information for your family, and it can just be the theme of what your celebration of life information for your family.

Speaker 2:

And it can just be the theme of what your celebration of life would be. What do you want to do, what do you want your family to do? Do you want them, to all you know, fill their glass of bubbles and toast to the life that you led? Or you know what are the little details in the minutiae that you would like your family to know about and that can?

Speaker 2:

be, a very empowering experience to be able to take that responsibility and to be able to give that to your family when they're going to need it most. But aside from all of that because that is really the heavier themes I guess in Wishkeeper that does really give people that feeling of dread and they do need to take a little while to come around to that. And that's fine, because you've got your whole life to do that. But there is the other practical things and when we stop and think about how complex we've made our lives in 2024, when you think about things like your insurance policies, our digital estate, so do we have a Google Drive, dropbox, all of our social media accounts? There's so many footprints that we leave behind when we go, and this is really important to start to be able to think about what. How can I make this easy for the people I love? That's the bottom line with Wishkeeper. And when you create the information and give people that information, they can access it really easily and that's what we call that fingertip access. So in the event of an emergency, do you have an emergency binder that's shoved in a linen press or under your bed or in a drawer that you maybe can't even remember where it is. What hope do your family have of knowing where it is? So with Wishkeeper, it's taking modern technology and bringing that to the forefront and allowing you, as the person putting in the information, to assign that information very specifically to the people you love. Now you can do that, either straight away, so things that they can access today, or you can lock things down that won't be released until after you've passed away, and there can be many reasons why you would choose to do that.

Speaker 2:

I think, serena, one of the probably easiest examples that I can share with you that we get a lot of feedback about is there's a section in Wishkeeper called Things I'd Like to Say, and I think many of us have things that we'd like to say, and some of us would like to say it after we're gone.

Speaker 2:

Whether that's positive or negative to people, that's up to the individual as to how they want to use that, but what a lot of families and a lot of people like to do mums and dads in particular is they'd like to leave a letter or a voice recording to be accessible to their children as they grow, and so Wishkeeper can enable that to happen. So, if you do want to write letters to loved ones that can be accessed after you're gone, then it does have that capability and the dynamic functionality to be able to do that, which is a very powerful tool when you think about the moments that matter and the things that are important in our life, when we can sit down and put pen to paper and really share with our child what matters most in life and to be able to give that to them as an ongoing keepsake, well after you're gone. I think that's such a beautiful gift to be able to give those that we love.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to ask a very practical question how do you ensure that your loved ones will respect what you've left behind in Wish Keeper?

Speaker 2:

Well, unfortunately, serena, we can't guarantee that. We can say that Wishkeeper minimises family disputes. However, we can't guarantee that your loved ones will follow your instructions, because they probably don't, even when you're living. So you know, not everyone does what we tell them to do. But I think the premise around Wishkeeper is the notion around it's information coming from the source. So if you have a situation and we heard from a wishmaker only yesterday that was thanking us for this because they know that their two children will dispute things, because they know that they've got very confident children that have very different personalities and understanding of things, and so for them, when they saw what wish keeper presented, they saw that this was a great solution to be able to not have different interpretations of things that they might hear today that could be changed when they need to draw on that information that they've preserved mentally and heard verbally. So with Wishkeeper, you can apply scanned, handwritten documents. You can record your voice. You can record a video talking to your children, and so if there are things in there that you want to declare to them, it's very powerful if they're watching a video of you saying this, as opposed to what most of the time happens is the two siblings battling it out in a debate of I remember it this way or this is how I interpreted it, or no. They definitely told me it was to be this way. So it really minimizes and eliminates those kinds of conversations with your children or your siblings.

Speaker 2:

Yourself, I am a youngest of five and I know that we are all very individual and different adults and even when we which is the premise around how Wishkeeper came to be when we were organising Mum's funeral, there were opposing views within the family and within the siblings, and we all get on extremely well.

Speaker 2:

But at a time like that, even the most compassionate family that has got together, you know, through their lives without fighting. At the time of loss, everything can change and we can say things we don't mean or we can act out in a way that we're not even, you know, we don't even remember doing, because we're struck with grief and so we have that brain fog, if you like, at that time when we need to know what did our person want? And if only we could have that, you know we would be able to move through this part and work towards celebrating their life and managing our grief and loss for that person. So I think when you start to think about the power behind that, of that delivery of that message, and how Wishkeeper can deliver that message for you, I think you can see that, yes, whilst we still can't completely ensure that your family will follow it, we think it goes a very long way to getting close to that and to minimising those disputes.

Speaker 1:

It sounds to me like this is not only about keeping wishes. It's also about keeping families intact when they could otherwise be divided very easily by something that's traumatic, that's sudden, or even in an anticipated event, simply because, I suppose you know, with a loss of a loved figure in the family, the structure suddenly changes, the dynamics change, and things that were not talked about much before suddenly bubble to the surface. And things that we assumed we wouldn much before suddenly bubble to the surface, and things that we assumed we wouldn't have to deal with for decades more are suddenly in the present and we have to deal with them. And so what you're doing is you are anticipating and ironing out some of those preventable kinks, I guess.

Speaker 2:

Most definitely, and we have varying feedback where people will say I have Wishkeeper because it's a place to store my will, I can tell my family who my lawyer is, and it's as simple as that.

Speaker 2:

That is solving one problem for them in their life.

Speaker 2:

We have others and we spoke to Sophia a few weeks ago and I said to her is it okay if I mention you on the podcast?

Speaker 2:

And she said and I said to her is it okay if I mention you on the podcast? And she said absolutely fine, and she uses so much of Wishkeeper because she knows that she is the driver in the household with her husband and her children. And she said I always used to worry about what would happen to them if something unexpected happens to me, because it can happen and we do hear stories of people going suddenly and, whilst it is an absolutely awful thing to consider, what is more awful is the state that we would leave our family in, and just a couple of hours in wishkeeper can prevent a lot of that. And she actually has right down to how to use the washing machine in her wishkeeper because she knows that there's so many different tasks that they will be lost and that period of time for their, for her children will be so much more traumatic by just not knowing the basics. Um, so you know it's. It's a fiercely practical tool, but it's also an incredibly deeply emotional tool as well.

Speaker 1:

I like that. It combines the emotional with the practical. But could you run us through you know in a very high level way perhaps how that works? So someone signs up for, let's say, a subscription with Wishkeeper and that gives them access to all the tools available, and so they make use of that, and then how do they let their loved ones know that they are using Wishkeeper and how do their loved ones access that upon their passing?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, great question With Wishkeeper. Once you do have your Wishkeeper that, like you said, there's a dashboard and you sign into it and there's all of the categories are presented to you in a very beautiful way, and part of Wishkeeper that you see in Wishkeeper is about what we call your ambassadors, and ambassadors are those people that you trust implicitly in your life. Now you can have up to 10 of those people and the average we find that people have is around five. It would be a partner, a sibling, an adult child. It could be a best friend that you've had from high school or a workplace that you've really stood the test of time and you share everything with each other, and that's a very typical scenario that we find from our customers of what they have. So when you decide on those people, you invite them, through Wishkeeper, to be a part of and to be an ambassador for you. So that's free for them to do that and to take on that responsibility. They'll have then their own username and password to go into their own what we call the ambassador hub, and that will enable them to be able to access the information that you release to them at any given time. So where I mentioned that there's all of those different categories. When you're entering information about yourself or the household or your business or anything at all, you'll be given an opportunity to actually assign commissions to each of those ambassadors.

Speaker 2:

Now there could be some information that you don't want those particular ambassadors to see.

Speaker 2:

There could be information that you want ambassadors to see straight away, and that would be if there is an emergency situation that they need that fingertip access, so it could be around your medications, your medical conditions, who your specialists are that you see. So that information could be very handy in an emergency situation if there's a health event or something that has happened that they need that information in a hurry, whereas there could be some information that you wanted to lock down until after you pass away, and so you've got that and it's literally just a button to tick and that's as simple as it is to be able to have that access. So when those ambassadors are invited and they have their own ambassador hub, they're notified every time you make a change. Every time you make a change to your wishkeeper or add some new information for them, they'll be notified that that is there. So it reduces the fact that they may forget that they're an ambassador for you, and we also send them information periodically to just remind them of their role and responsibility as your ambassador.

Speaker 1:

I want to circle back, though, to the underlying, perhaps the emotions or the beliefs around death and dying and the progressive losing of faculties. I'm just wondering for people who are perhaps experiencing cognitive decline over a period of time are they also able to take advantage of wishkeeper?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and it's a great question because there is some legal considerations.

Speaker 2:

When somebody is in cognitive decline and we often hear the term are they sound of mind to make these decisions?

Speaker 2:

So I think we do have to tread with caution, but I think if a person, if there is, for example, an early onset dementia diagnosis and somebody is aware of what's ahead of them and they can sit either with their lawyer or their spouse or a family member to share that experience with them, the thing with Wishkeeper is, yes, it's a deeply personal tool, but you don't have to do it alone.

Speaker 2:

And that is the really important part of Wishkeeper is don't do those things alone and have somebody with you that is trusted, that can sit with you at your computer and you can go through the sections and then actually document some of that information, knowing that with that diagnosis, that you are going to start to have some cognitive impairment and some memory disruption as well. So it's really important then to be able to document things while you can, while you're still in a in a capacity to be able to do so. And I think in that situation having firsthand experience with a mother who had very aggressive dementia you do have to tread carefully because there will be some confronting times through that journey and it might be again, as I mentioned, having a legal or a professional advisor present through that process can be quite important and can be also quite helpful when you are dealing with somebody that is potentially going to have some of that disruption in their cognitive ability.

Speaker 1:

The thing with human nature is we often wait till there is that wake-up call or something that happens to disrupt our normal routine before we will turn our attention to something as important as this.

Speaker 1:

And this is what you're saying is.

Speaker 1:

This is something that every person should be taking advantage of in order to, you know, have our affairs, in order ensure our loved ones are not extra traumatized by what's happening and having to scurry around looking for vital information.

Speaker 1:

But I can also sense that this deep reluctance to confront, to look at things as they are, or maybe it's because our lives are so busy and so distracted that we've become overwhelmed by all the extra. You mentioned at the start of our conversation that our lives have become very complicated because of all digital estate. I think perhaps the layperson might not even understand what that term means, but then you did clarify that it means your Google Drive, your Dropbox, perhaps your passwords and all the things and the digital footprint that we leave on social media, and these things are just. They get more rather than less, and so is there a way for us to perhaps prepare to interact with Wishkeeper by doing something before that, to manage our lives and be able to get a handle and be able to say I know where things are, I know what list I have to get ready in order to be able to take advantage of Wishkeeper.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think it's about diving into Wishkeeper and allowing Wishkeeper to help you do that, because we have complicated our lives and, in many cases, overcomplicated our lives, and the amount of things that we need to keep track of in this modern era can be so overwhelming. And there is something to be said about decluttering your life administration. Often, if you're a business owner or working for a business and you know we put a lot of energy into making sure the business is running well and we're doing everything right and we're getting our to-do lists in order and strategic plans and collaborating and all of those great things that make a business run successfully. Yet somehow there's a blind spot in applying those same principles to our own life, and Wishkeeper is a way. Once you start to look into that I'll give you an example is insurance policies.

Speaker 2:

Once you start to document all of the different insurance policies that you have in Wishkeeper, you might start to realise that you might be a little bit over-insured and I know insurance brokers won't want to hear me saying this, but the reality is that we do cobble things together in our life as we travel through life, but how often do we stop and reflect and think about the things that we no longer need or that no longer serve us anymore, and so Wishkeeper is a very powerful way to declutter your life, admin, and to start to realize, actually, those things are not important to me, those things don't matter to me anymore.

Speaker 2:

It's really important for me to start thinking about my legacy. How do I want to be remembered? What are the moments that really matter to me and what is important to me? And when you start to really get clarity on those things in your life, you can have an enormous shift in well-being. And, as I mentioned, in business we're doing this every day. We're thinking about how to create the best, most successful business, not just for ourselves, but for the people that we employ. But when we turn that lens on ourselves and our family, I ask the question are we applying the same level of due diligence and consistency and strategy to how we're living our life with the people that we love?

Speaker 1:

I like how you've simplified that and really brought us back to the meaning and the purpose behind Wishkeeper, and that is decluttering our life, admin, not something we all enjoy doing, not something we really think about actively, but so necessary because life is unpredictable. I would like to ask you a question from the business point of view, as a business person creating this business from something that has affected you personally. What has been your biggest learning on this journey?

Speaker 2:

Well, there's been many, but one of the things that I think, when you embark on a project, that you're driven from a lived experience and you've seen that there's a gap and you've seen that behaviour can change, you really need to be ready to sit in that saddle of that horse for a very long time and you need gumption, you need to be able to stick to it. I think it takes a great mind to start and to think of an idea. It takes an even greater mind to start the idea. But it really does take extraordinary effort to finish and complete something. And I can tell you, serena, there were many times we did not get to that part three and it pushed us to so many ledges to say this is too much, this is too difficult. How could we possibly think that we could change the way humans work? And we're still to find out if we are going to do that. We know for thousands, we have already. But this is a journey that is a long one because it is about changing behaviours. So I think when you're embarking on a business, you do need to think about the long game, and it's difficult to be able to forecast that, but I think the more you can speak with other business owners, particularly ones that have created a unique business proposition that perhaps doesn't exist. How do they go about building and having the stamina to keep going? And the reality is it's messy, it's scrappy, it's hard.

Speaker 2:

There's times when you don't want to get out of bed because you've got so much on your to-do list and you just think where do I start? I'm just going to stay here in the comfort of my bed, watch Netflix and just avoid it all. But you get through those days because you someone will say something, or you'll see something, or you'll hear about something that's happened to a person or somebody that you know has known, someone that's passed away suddenly and they don't know what to do, and you hear those things and it just reignites that drive to keep going. But you do need people around you to help you and support you through that, and I think and the premise around Serena the Quiet Warrior is that reluctance to seek help and the desire to think. If this, this is to be, it's up to me. That doesn't mean that you have to do it alone. You can still have people around you that can support your mission and your goal, and that's critically important when you're embarking on something that maybe no one has paved the path before you.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, we certainly have had many of those challenging times, but it's been incredibly rewarding to get to the end point and to hear from people that are using Wishkeeper and how it is. It was hard for them to use Wishkeeper but now they very quickly have become accustomed to creating what we call the Wishkeeper habit, which is when something wonderful happens in their life and they'll record a video and it's a really special one, not just one we'd keep in our phone. They can upload it straight into their wishkeeper because they know it's a defining moment or a memorable moment they want to treasure and create that keepsake for their family. So, whether that's, you know, bob's first birthday or great grandmother's 100th birthday, whatever it might be, they're important moments to capture and reflect and more and more we're living in our phones and our phones are not going to see us through. It's the people around us that are, and the phone's not going to pass on those memories. But Wishkeeper can do that for you.

Speaker 1:

You're giving me goosebumps, Cheryl, when you talked about those special core memories that you can upload into Wishkeeper straight away and your family can be comforted and laugh again and, you know, feel some of that magic again when they watch those videos, and I think that is a beautiful way to wrap up this discussion. That death is always coming for us. It is something that we can plan for to some extent. That it's about decluttering life at min. It is about making things easier for loved ones. It is also taking back our power to communicate and share the things that are important to us, that we want to pass on as a legacy to our loved ones and a way for us, I guess, to leave our imprint in the most wholesome, most beautiful, most organized way possible using software. So what is the next iteration for Wishkeeper? What's next that you're working on?

Speaker 2:

Well, we do already have our next iteration, which is Wishkeeper Connect, which works with professional services that are working with their clients on these themes, and it's a beautiful service extension for people like wills and estate lawyers, family lawyers, financial advisors and people that are really wanting to give much more than facts and figures and numbers and to really provide a whole solution to their clients. But some of the other things that we are looking at and working towards in the future. Obviously, ai is something that almost everybody is talking about at the moment and we're not in a rush for that, but we do understand how AI can really assist people with understanding what's available to them. So eventually, we'd like to get to the phase where Wishkeeper is a platform where you can put in what your interests are, what you like, what your dislikes are, and it will curate some suggestions for you around what you might want to consider, and that could be a very powerful way to bring all of that information that is already out there and somewhat accessible, but when you're thinking about it for yourself can be quite difficult. So there is some of those types of advances that we're looking at at the moment that are on the roadmap, but we want to make sure that they're done really well.

Speaker 2:

At the moment, I think everyone's very much in love with ChatGPT and we can spot it a mile away sometimes and I think people. It's a shiny new toy that everyone loves using, which is quite fun. But when we're thinking about AI, it's much deeper than that and it's much more about a tool to assist and support rather than to replace your thinking or your actions, and so that's where we want to do that really, really well, and so we're excited about what that can bring to people through Wishkeeper.

Speaker 1:

How can people connect with you and find out more about Wishkeeper?

Speaker 2:

Well, the easiest way, sorina, is through our website, which is easy to remember. It's wishkeepercomau, and there's a lot of information on there and videos about Wishkeeper, so people can certainly watch those videos. They can connect directly to us myself and David, my business partner, who together we built this, both from different and varied lived experiences, so you can contact both of us through the website as well, and we love talking to people that are interested and we're very much in the business. We have other people that support us, but we feel that the only way we're going to create Wishkeeper as a household name is to be right there with our customers, and so the more we can talk to you, even if you're just mildly interested, we would love to discuss your journey and where you're at in your stage of life and how Wishkeeper can perhaps help you.

Speaker 2:

And I think the most important and most telling thing with Wishkeeper is and the message I guess we want people to understand, because it is a difficult theme to think about is there's something incredibly powerful about simply acknowledging that our time on the planet is limited and once we do have that shift, the life that we will live is so much more empowered and we will take less things for granted and it will inadvertently bring more meaning into every day for you and you will ultimately spend more of your energy and more of your time on the things you love, with the people you love, and if we can do that and have that shift for people, then I feel like we've done our job.

Speaker 1:

Cheryl, thank you so much for coming on the Quiet Warrior podcast today to share with us about Wishkeeper software and how every one of us can access that, and if you're listening to this episode, do check out the show notes as well, for all the links to Cheryl's socials as well as the Wishkeeper website. Have a look at it and have a think also about how it's going to affect not only you yourself, but also your loved ones. It's perhaps a good time to pause from our busy schedule to think about life and death, about ultimate issues, about what happens outside of ourselves, about the things that are bigger than ourselves, that we are just a tiny part of. So thank you so much, cheryl, for inspiring this conversation today, and if you've enjoyed this episode, remember to take 30 seconds to rate and review it on your favorite listening platform. Thank you, and see you on the next episode of the Quiet Warrior podcast.

Speaker 1:

I'm so grateful that you're here today. If you found this content valuable, please share it on your social media channels and subscribe to the show on your favorite listening platform. Together, we can help more introverts thrive. To receive more uplifting content like this, connect with me on Instagram at Serena Lo Quiet Warrior Coach, thank you for sharing your time and your energy with me. See you on the next episode.