The Quiet Warrior Podcast with Serena Low

73. Feel the Fear and Speak Anyway: Stage Fright Solutions for Quiet Achievers with Guest Mahlena-Rae Johnson

• Serena Low, Introvert Coach for Quiet Achievers and Quiet Warriors

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Do you freeze up at the thought of public speaking? 
Feel like your quiet personality doesn’t “fit” on stage? 
You’re not alone—and you don’t have to change who you are to be heard.


In this episode of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, I’m joined by speaker, comedian, and six-time author Mahlena-Rae Johnson, who calls herself the “Professor X for introverted CEOs with stage fright.” 

With warmth, humor, and deep wisdom, Mahlena shares how introverts can embrace their own rhythm, speak with impact, and feel safe being seen—without performing or pretending.

We talk about:

 – Why stage fright isn’t something to “cure”—and what to do instead
 – The hidden power of preparation (and why introverts often overprepare)
 – How to manage nerves, relate to your audience, and recover afterward
 – What being a “Quiet Warrior” looks like in a world obsessed with visibility
 – Mahlena’s 3-part framework from her book Speak Anyway (Relax • Relate • Release)


Whether you're a quiet achiever navigating leadership or an introvert dreaming of sharing your story, this episode is your permission slip to speak in a way that honors you.


Connect with Mahlena-Rae Johnson:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mahlena
Book: https://mahlenaspeaks.blogspot.com/2023/11/speak-an.html


Resources mentioned:

Gay Hendricks, The Big Leap | Conscious Luck | Your Big Leap Year

Call to action:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review, rate the show, and share it with someone who needs a little courage to speak anyway.


This episode was edited by Aura House Productions

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Serena Loh. If you're used to hearing that introverts are shy, anxious, antisocial and lack good communication and leadership skills, then this podcast is for you. You're about to fall in love with the calm, introspective and profound person that you are. Discover what's fun, unique and powerful about being an introvert, and how to make the elegant transition from quiet achiever to quiet warrior in your life and work anytime you want, in more ways than you imagined possible. Welcome.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Quiet Warrior podcast. Now today, I have got with me someone all the way from Toronto, Canada. She's a speaker, she's a comedian, a six-time author and she's the Professor X for Introverted CEOs with Stage Fright. Welcome, Melaina Rae Johnson, to the Quiet Warrior Podcast. It's a delight to have you here.

Speaker 3:

It's a delight to be here, Serena.

Speaker 2:

What makes you call yourself Professor X for introverted ed tech CEOs with stage fright? I was just intrigued.

Speaker 3:

Well, I was trying to pick something that encapsulated what I do in a way that shows who I am. So I have an entertainment background. I went to film school at Loyola Marymount in Los Angeles and then I went to business school at USC, which is one of the hubs of entertainment. So I love media and I also love education. I also love education and I think of myself as a person who works in their zone of genius, and my zone of genius is to unearth the superpower buried inside of other leaders. So with the superpower theme and the education theme, I thought of Professor X and the education theme. I thought of Professor X, who tries to teach his students and his fellow teachers the best way to bring out the superpowers inside of each of them in a productive way. And that's what I want to do with my fellow introverted CEOs who may have stage fright or may not have stage fright, but they want to make their next presentation a success.

Speaker 2:

If I remember also, professor X had a school you know, especially dedicated and it was on his estate. It was away from everyone. It was a safe place for his special young people to develop their superpowers. So would you say that safety is an essential part of an introvert developing their superpowers.

Speaker 3:

Yes, I would. The fun thing about me is that I have discovered over the years that I've always been a by at least stubborn human being. So, for instance, the accent that I'm speaking with doesn't reflect the places that I necessarily was born or grew up entirely. I was born in Arkansas, in the middle of the United States, and I grew up in St Thomas in the US Virgin Islands, and I speak like the people on TV because I was raised by a VCR and a cable box. So, similarly, with introversion, there are people who wanted me to speak up more, say something louder, go and be social.

Speaker 3:

I was like I like how I am, and the thing that gave me the safety to be who I am is my environment. So there might've been a few people who wanted me to change, but for the most part the people in my life were supportive of who I am. Even though they may have said try to be more social, they didn't chastise me for it, and that's the kind of feeling that I want to bring to other people. The other thing is that, growing up in St Thomas, I was sent St Thomas as part of the U? S Virgin islands. It's 80% black and matriarchal, so my existence was centered, so I want to give other people a same sense of centeredness, where, where um many people think leaders have to be extroverted, they have to be loud, they have to be in your face all the time. I want to give not only the people that I work with, but the people I encounter the freedom to be themselves and to feel like I am a person who not only accepts them but celebrates them for who they are.

Speaker 2:

What is the connection between a matriarchal community and that feeling of centeredness? It sounded to me like what you're saying is, when you're centered, you're not so worried about what other people think of you and you're not trying so hard to fit into somebody else's definition of how you should be. But it's like you have a very solid sense of yourself and you can operate from that space.

Speaker 3:

Yes, that is definitely true. It is both my personality, so what I was born with and what's inside of me, but also it's not something that I realized until I left St Thomas that being in a specifically Black and matriarchal society allowed me, a Black woman, to say there's lots of different ways to be someone who looks like me. The weirdness was when I had interest outside of the norms of that society. So when I had interest in things like filmmaking or my favorite TV shows or different comedians that other people hadn't heard of because I was watching Comedy Central so much, the sense of who I was as a human wasn't questioned. It was more of my interest that people would find eccentric.

Speaker 3:

But I think the biggest thing that happened for me in the sense of accepting my interests not some, I guess some of what of who I am was that the internet got bigger so I could find people who are interested in feminism and interested in the show Daria and interested in reruns of Get Smart and interested in the original Danger Mouse and connect with those people in ways that I couldn't before. But there was never really a question of who I was as how I presented in the world more of why don't you speak up more, even though, especially in school, I was getting all the answers right, so did I really need to speak up more? Or were people just trying to make me what they thought of as a better leader, even though I led quietly, including in the classroom?

Speaker 2:

And that is a problem. I think a lot of our listeners face as well this pressure to perform in a certain way to fit other people's expectations of how we should be. Now, why is it that people keep telling quiet people to speak up more or to speak louder? What is it about being a quieter person that maybe makes someone else uncomfortable?

Speaker 3:

Well, what I have found, not only with quiet people but with the way that I present, is it's a reflection of that other person possibly wanting to fit in themselves, and their proximity to them makes them feel odd. So, for example, in business school, I was not asked to speak up more. I raised my hand. I had done a lot of preparation for business school the month before, reading all these books about how to get ready for business school, and there's this whole thing about only raising your hand once or twice during a class and then letting other people speak Otherwise. It feels like you're dominating the area. So I was like, yeah, I can raise my hand once in class and that'll be fine.

Speaker 3:

But there were people who didn't like my quirkiness, so they would feel like they liked who I was, they liked what I was bringing, but they didn't like the presentation that I did it in Like there's the time. I doubt any of them are listening, but if didn't like the presentation that I did it in Like there there's the time. I I doubt any of them are listening, but if they are, hello. There is a time when someone asked me why do you move your hand so much like this? And I was like, because I'm excited about what I'm saying and to them, that wasn't a way to conduct yourself. Like, like, the concept of moving my hand as I spoke about something I was excited about, or just pumped in my fist like this was too much for them to handle and they told me that I should change that because it they thought it was an act like I was performing and I was like, no, I'm just um in, uh, just sharing my enthusiasm about the words that are coming out of my mouth with you.

Speaker 3:

So there are people who want to change you because they want you to be more normal, like them, in a way that they have seen the world, and if you are doing something outside of that norm, then it brings attention to them and they think a negative way side of that norm. Then it brings attention to them and they think a negative way. So when people try to tell other people to be less quiet or talk more, it's really about them. It's not about the person who isn't talking, because the person who isn't talking usually is just minding their business and not getting anyone else into trouble and also not saying things that they haven't researched or have receipts for or have thought out clearly. So, yes, if someone's trying to tell you to change whether they want you to be louder or quieter or taller or shorter it's usually about something that's going on with that other person, that they're insecure with themselves and feel like if they can change someone else, that can help them feel better.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that is the best. That is the best mic drop so far, and I'm expecting many more to come from you, malena. No expecting, yes, this idea of it's on them. It was never about me, it was never about you, not specifically. It's just a reflection of where other people are in their journey and their relationship with themselves.

Speaker 2:

So if we're out of sync with ourselves, we're more likely to notice things about other people that sort of irritate us a little bit, make us uncomfortable, make us reflect, maybe make us look at ourselves and you're right, we don't want to look at ourselves. Sometimes it takes courage to look at ourselves, to look inside ourselves, to ask questions that may disturb the waters, and then it means I've got to go and change something about myself, and change is hard work. Change is not something we do and you see the results immediately. It's a process and not everyone's willing to go there. So thank you for spotlighting that, because I think that's going to give anyone listening a lot of perspective and a lot of courage when they realize it's not about them.

Speaker 2:

It's actually just a reflection of where someone else is, and just imagine if we had to also acquire that shape-shifting superpower of trying to please or mind-read every single person we come across and then calibrate our body language, our tone, our accent, whatever, just to make them happy. How much work would that be? How much mental toll, emotional toll would that take on each person? It just doesn't make sense. It still makes sense to come back to your center to know who you are, to be proud of that, to be happy in that, to take delight in that and just express yourself authentically that way that is true.

Speaker 3:

It's something that I learned more about when I moved from St Thomas to Los Angeles about the one, the idea of code switching, and to the idea of respectability pot politics. So one code switching is something I never did, which did annoy some people in St Thomas that I did it it wasn't that many people, but some people in St Thomas that I didn't. It wasn't that many people. But some people were like, oh, how long have you been here? I was like, uh, for years. And then they would say, well, you haven't learned the accent yet. I'm like, no, I just speak like this, it's fine. And then respectability politics is something I learned more about when I came back to the mainland United States, about trying to change who you are to be acceptable, specifically in corporate culture, and I just didn't feel like I needed to do that or wanted to do that.

Speaker 3:

But so many people have bought into that and it's unfortunate. It's not just an introverted thing, but it is a uh, what is it? It's I wouldn't just say people of color thing, it'd be a non-white people thing to feel like I have to change to be accepted. And, um, I saw more people in business school do that with their names, which is a whole thing that I hadn't been familiar with until then and something that I'm still continuing to learn about now. But I know who I am and how I am, and I would rather learn more about why people want to change to fit in than condemn them for doing that.

Speaker 2:

So you're talking about a healthy curiosity and maybe some compassion as well, understanding the whys and the wherefores, the story behind it and what drives people to try so hard to fit in. Coming from Singapore, I didn't really have that problem with the code switching and the respectability politics you mentioned, not to that extent of having to change my name or anything and then migrating to Australia. I didn't have to do that as well because I already had a first name, an English sounding kind of first name. So that was, I guess it was easy for other people. But I do know, know many friends, other women of color, who have changed their first names because other people found it difficult to pronounce and maybe they were just tired of having to correct their pronunciation every time or explain how it should sound, and so they just modified it, the first name, to something that's just anglo-sounding, just to make it easy for other people.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well, I have had to tell people how my name is pronounced since I could pronounce my day. So there is a uh, and the only the only thing that I have done for me is just tell people to call me by the first part of my first name, because I like that it had nothing to do with anybody else, but there is a understanding of that had never had the concept in my mind of changing the name that I was given so that other people could have an easier time with this. I was like, why, like, especially after I heard of I think it was uh, was it a Dobus? Uh, mother talking about Tchaikovsky and Schwarzenegger and and something else, probably Galifianakis, and people can figure out how to pronounce those names. So Uzo is fine it's incredible.

Speaker 2:

That's uh, that's a whole other conversation that could take another hour if we wanted to dive deep into that one.

Speaker 3:

Okay, what is next on Serena's list?

Speaker 2:

Yes, but back to the central point of today's conversation, which is stage fright, and I know a lot of introverts, and maybe some extroverts too, will have encountered that at some point. I know I certainly have had my mind blank out when I was standing and looking at 200 people and suddenly forgot my lines and lost my momentum for a bit. Talk to us about stage fright, how it affects people, and is it something that can be cured? Is it something that can be overcome?

Speaker 3:

Well, I like to say that I teach you how to feel the fear and speak anyway. So it's not necessarily something that you overcome or try to cure like introversion. They're related not necessarily the same thing, because extroverts have stage fright too, but stage fright is something that I haven't had, because I get excited about having my allotted time on stage. The thing that I get more nervous about is speaking in a small group of people and wanting to say something and someone else is still talking, and then I have this idea that I wanted to share, but the conversations moved on to a thing and I'm like can I still say that or not? Is it my turn? But when there's a stage, either a physical stage or a stage online, where you're presenting to a group of people on Zoom or whatever platform you have, it's nice to have the time allotted for me, because it gives me a sense of structure, of expectation, that I'm going to speak for this amount of time. I will be ready for that amount of time and then, when the time is done, I will leave the stage and recover by myself, and hopefully the question and answers are included in that time For other people.

Speaker 3:

The concept of having that time allotted for you to fill makes them scared because they start. They don't think of what could go right. They think of what could go wrong, not outside things like an earthquake or an alien invasion or a fire. They think they'll forget their lines or they'll know what to say, but no one will like it or it won't have the effect they want.

Speaker 3:

So, understandably, people get afraid when there's a bunch of people looking at them and expecting them to perform in a way that is suitable. Perform in a way that is suitable, as I like to tell people overall, if they get one message from me is that your audience wants you to do well. They don't want things to be awkward, they don't want things to go wrong. They want you to have an enjoyable time on stage, because that means that they're having an enjoyable time listening to you, and they want it to go well. Usually, you're not a stand-up comedian with hecklers in the audience throwing tomatoes at you. You're just delivering some sort of presentation or speech or whatever you're doing, and the people who have decided to show up to listen or were forced to go see you want it to go well, because that means that their time was well spent.

Speaker 2:

I love that you mentioned some people might have been forced to go see you and might have ambivalent feelings about being there. But yes, I do agree and I find that very helpful to think of it, as when I'm in the audience, I'm actually mentally cheering for the speaker. I want them to do well. Yes, I want it to be a good way to use my time. I'm there to learn something new and I want this person to be able to showcase what is it that they're standing up there for, and I also know what it's like to be on the stage and therefore I have that sympathetic response towards them.

Speaker 3:

And.

Speaker 2:

I think most of us are kind people and good people. We are all cheering for the speaker. We know it's not easy to be the one on the stage, and so there is that feeling of goodwill and support. And so I think when someone is on the stage and is given that opportunity to speak, they do need to realize that they are already surrounded by a wave of goodwill and everybody there is rooting for them, and to maybe tap into or borrow some of that energy for themselves and maybe not make it so much about themselves too, but more like they are being a conduit or they are being a vehicle to share something that could be impactful to one or two people in the audience. And if that's all that is already, you've done something amazing. You've changed someone's trajectory, someone's perspective, someone's day, and that as itself, I think, is significant. So maybe we need to be a lot kinder to ourselves yes, yes, we do in general?

Speaker 2:

Yes, so a while ago you mentioned being in your zone of excellence and being in your zone of genius. Talk to us about why that matters and what's the difference between the two.

Speaker 3:

Well, I got the phrases from Gay Hendricks when I read his book the Big Leap, and then I read subsequent books of his, including Conscious Luck and oh, loss of pencil. And I just finished your Big Leap Year. It's a 365-day, essentially journal that follows along the Big Le leap and the concepts that are in all of these books is working your zone of excellence versus your zone of genius. So these are the two highest levels. There's two other ones, I think it's competence and stuff that you're just not capable at at all. So for a while, multiple years, I was working in my zone of excellence, which was helping students get into college, university, graduate school, as well as business school, medical school, by helping them with their admissions packages, including their standardized tests, including the SAT, act, gmat, gre, toefl and some California specific tests. So I was great at helping people do math and English in a way that is standardized by US institutions. I was good at helping them create an overall package, so not just focusing on the test but on what they are putting in the rest of the application, including their essays, branding themselves as a specific type of student that would fit into a specific type of school for the reasons that they have established. By visiting the school and talking to admissions officers and I was great at that I helped people get into places like Brown and Auburn. One person got a full scholarship to Berkeley and took a partial scholarship to UCLA, notre Dame, I think it was a University of Chicago, loyola Med School. So different places around the United States and I think some other countries too.

Speaker 3:

But what I've discovered is I love talking to leaders, so people who have gone through school and are now running their own businesses, and identifying that what they're doing could be so much more than what they're doing at the moment, so recognizing that there's something inside of them that they're not necessarily believing in or listening to.

Speaker 3:

And because I'm an introvert and because I like performing on stage as I used to study dance in both high school and university, I also did stand up comedy in both Los Angeles and in Toronto I like being someone who's on stage and I like doing that, and I know that other people don't like doing that, but they have to to put to move their business forward. So it would be easy to stay in my zone of excellence, but it would not be satisfying and it's a lot harder to work in my zone of genius, creating, developing my coaching business in a different way than is already established. But I know that working in my zone of genius will help me exercise my superpower instead of hiding it under a bushel basket, because there's a big risk.

Speaker 2:

I love that Not hiding your light under a bushel basket.

Speaker 3:

Yes, it's something that Jim Gaffigan said in one of his shows.

Speaker 2:

I see, but the connection though with improv and comedy, I would imagine that the whole idea of improv is you don't know, right. There is a lot of uncertainty in that whole exercise. How does that sit with being an introvert?

Speaker 3:

Well, I haven't done improv specifically, so I was in standup. The difference between them is improv is usually a group setting and standup is usually singular. There's exceptions to each rule. But in standup you have to go on stage and your goal is to make people laugh. And it could be hard if you're not prepared, which is why I like to bring the preparation to my coaching and emphasize that in these presentations that you're doing, especially if you're a CEO in ed tech, no one's expecting you to be funny. They're expecting you to have a background in education. So they're not used to people necessarily aiming to be funny. They're usually expecting a very heartfelt story about how you helped uh, your product helps someone learn in a classroom. It helped a teacher to get their life back. Um, it helps parents to connect better with your children. So being prepared is the thing that I would say is the link between stand up and delivering a text speech as a leader of your company, but also knowing your audience. So in standup, the best people who are on the road.

Speaker 3:

I've never been on the road, but if you're an on the road comic, you have to adjust to each different venue. So if you're going to a venue in Stockholm. That's different than a venue in London, which is different than a venue in Sydney. You have to know what's going on.

Speaker 3:

In each of your locations, the customs say things that are relevant to the person you're talking to. For instance, these are the socks that were on the bed right now, but they have kangaroos, can you see it? Uh, so I got these. These aren't even mine, but, uh, but they were, they were a gift. Uh and um. You talk, you speak to the people that are in front of you at the time. So when you're an ed tech, you're not always speaking to the same audience, not only in terms of teachers versus superintendents versus investors. You're also in different locations. So a big city, a little city, sometimes different languages. So incorporating the culture of the location that you're in and the people that you're with is applicable to both going on the road during standup or going on the road doing a pitching tour, trying to get people to buy into your product or service.

Speaker 2:

And I would say that that is a general rule as well, that applies to any kind of presentation, any kind of occasion. When you are speaking with people, if you make that extra effort to cater what you're saying to what's personal to the other person like you with your gorgeous kangaroo socks it makes you more memorable. It shows that you've put in that extra effort, you've done that extra prep, you've noticed, you've paid attention, and that, too, is a trait of the introvert, isn't it? The attention to detail, the preparation, that wanting to be that student that goes in there having already done some reading and eager to put up your hand, not because you're trying to dominate the conversation or hog attention or anything, but because you have something to say that is of value and you want to share that.

Speaker 3:

Yes, that is true, but also allow for the wind. I forgot where it was. No, that that's. I do remember. It's from it's the quote from get, where Max says to somebody you forgot to allow for the wind. And sometimes you need to allow for the wind not only if you're outside, but allow for magic to happen when you're not expecting it. Example I planned my top of my outfit and ironed my shirt and my cardigan because I thought it would be on video. The socks came a few minutes ago, well before we started, because my feet were cold and they were on the bed available. So there's stuff that you can prepare for and be like, yes, I'm ready. And then there's stuff that just happens and you can let it happen and it can be great. So definitely be prepared, but also allow for the magic to happen.

Speaker 2:

I love that because I think a lot of times the introverts stress comes from not being able to foresee every single thing, not being able to prepare a hundred percent, and that makes us really upset, because we want to be that good student. We want to be that you know, solidly prepared person who knows what they're doing and knows what they're going to say. But you are right the wind, the sun, the, the hormone levels anything could be something that derails us. But also allowing the magic, allowing for the unexpected, allowing for the quirks, the, the miracles, the little serendipities and synchronicities of, you know, kangaroo socks showing up at the right time. And also, I love the words on the top that you've got on today oh, yes, it's, it's my, it's a shirt that I made for my business.

Speaker 3:

It says uh, what is your story? So I was planning to wear. I worn this to a conference before and I put I have an orange one as well. It has a different thing on it. I forgot exactly what it says, but I made them because I was excited about. Oh, this is my shirt for my business. And then people will come up to me and ask and not that many people have, but it's still nice.

Speaker 2:

Really, I would have thought you would have had a line of people coming up and, you know, asking you what is your story, or wanting to tell you their story.

Speaker 3:

Well, people, there's a lot going on at different conferences, so people get distracted.

Speaker 2:

That's true, usually it's the coffee Right. I? That's true, usually it's the coffee Right. I wanted to ask you you have a program called Speak Anyway, the number one public speaking guide for introverted CEOs with stage fright. Tell us more about that.

Speaker 3:

Well, that is my book, my sixth book, and it is a short book. It's short and funny, like me, and it's both a narrative and a non-narrative guide. So there's a story in it about a pair of EdTech CEOs. The main character is Jordan. She and her friend Casey are at an EdTech conference where Casey has just spoken and Jordan is expecting her chief marketing officer of her company to come deliver the final keynote of the last day of the conference. But her chief marketing officer's wife goes into labor with twins and Jordan has to deliver the speech. So the book follows Jordan's three parts of her, I guess, acceptance that she has to actually deliver the speech, not the person who is skilled and trained to do so she has.

Speaker 3:

The first part of the book is her relaxing because she knows she can't be all tense, and preparing for what's going to happen, relating, which is where she's actually delivering the speech and being in the moment. So, knowing that she has done the preparation, and now it's time for her to not only deliver the words to the audience but also take them in. And in the middle of the delivery she does forget what she's saying and just tells them what's happening instead of trying to figure out where her place is. She explains the situation that there are babies being delivered, they're fine, and now she's the one that has to be on stage in front of thousands of people. And then the last part of the book is release.

Speaker 3:

So releasing all of the anxiety that she built up and noting that she prepared beforehand to have space to recover and she gave people an action step to do that does not involve bombarding her when she steps off the stage, but contacting someone else who can take all of their questions that she will get back to as soon as the conference is over. So it also has things for you to do. Along with Jordan, create your own 30-second speech, go over the preparation that you would have during your presentation and planning how you can capitalize on the presentation after without wearing yourself out. So I like to think it's funny. It gives you actual things to do and it shows you an example of someone who is in the same position as you an introverted CEO who didn't expect to give a speech, but learns how valuable it can be to be the face of your own company.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Your three hours of relaxing, relating, releasing yes it came from a different world. Came from a different world.

Speaker 3:

Yes, did you watch a different world?

Speaker 2:

No I didn't Okay.

Speaker 3:

Well, it was on in the early 90s and it was about an HBCU called Hillman College in Virginia and Debbie Allen not only produced the show, she was in the show as one of the main characters therapist and she told her to relax. Relate release.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic. That's a very succinct way to help someone who is going through stage fright, which is also a perfect segue to the theme of the Quiet Warrior podcast, because this is about quiet achievers growing into quiet warriors, and, to me, a quiet warrior can rise to the occasion when needed. So, you know, in a case like yours, where someone is asked to do a presentation at the last minute and they don't feel 100% prepared, they're a little bit shocked by the whole thing there is a process that you can take them through to help them actually rise to the occasion and deliver, and I love that. What is your perception of what a quiet warrior is?

Speaker 3:

Well, I like to think of a duck paddling across a pond like synchronized swimmers. So like the duck. You see the calmness of the duck on the top of the pond and underneath their little paddles or paddling, their feet are going every which way in the water, but it looks really nice on the top. So sometimes I will say, for people who are working in corporate environments or just employees for whatever reason, there's always a sense of you need to look busy so that people think that you're doing something, whereas people who often are doing the most efficiently, effectively, with the best result, are not necessarily loud about it. They are getting the work done, not necessarily talking about the work that they are doing all the time because they're actually doing the work. Or sometimes they are not doing things because they know that will get in the way of actual productivity happening.

Speaker 3:

So, being a quiet warrior for me, even though I do like to tell people about what I'm doing so they know and they stay informed, because some people like to watch my videos or read my posts and be excited for me A lot of the work that I'm doing I can't do in front of everybody, because a lot of what I'm doing now is connecting with people through 30-minute video calls, people that I am inspired by, so those are not things that I'm recording and showing other people.

Speaker 3:

It's building my community and strengthening my village and encouraging other people to do the same, because that's where the success lies. It's not about being the loudest and the best and showing everybody what you're doing all the time. Sometimes it is doing the work and you could do it quietly, or you can do it and you can do it confidently. You can report back your findings afterwards, like I do, tell people that I do have these lovely coffee chats and explain the benefits of doing them. But talking about what you're doing all the time and trying to make sure everyone hears you is not necessarily the way to get to your goal and it's not the way that introverts necessarily like to function. So if it takes you doing something quietly to win a war or to plant your garden or to connect with your community, then do it in the way that's best for you and you can be quiet about it if you'd like.

Speaker 2:

So there is a lot of freedom in that, I think, because the pressure of being on social media, of trying to put yourself out there, as we are encouraged to do so, often takes a toll too.

Speaker 2:

It takes time away and energy away from the deep work that introverts love.

Speaker 2:

We love to go into our little cave and meditate and ponder and think up all the wise things that's coming out of our spirits and how to curate it and shape it in a way that's understandable to somebody else, that can be shared and makes it shareable.

Speaker 2:

All that takes energy and that kind of deep work is best done in solitude, where we, the minute you have to talk about it, a different kind of energy comes in, isn't it? Which I think takes away from that the joy of that kind of creative process. So I really hear you there and I agree with you that it's important to know how to balance that need, for this is my time to do my deep work, my research, my study. When I'm ready to come out of my cave and share it with people, I will do so, but I don't need to feel compelled to be talking all the time, to be out there all the time, to be exposed all the time to have to comment and receive comments and have to think about all those other things because they can be distracting. Those are attention stealers, aren't they?

Speaker 3:

They can be. And so there's also a need to recognize that everything is not for everybody body. So there are people who do very well by by being on display 24, seven or however many hours a day they want to, and that is, that is, a business model or a lifestyle that works for them and get gives them what they want. And also that is is a a reason that I didn't continue stand-up comedy. Um, not directly because of the look at me, look at me thing, but it's um for me. I loved being able to write the jokes and deliver them and then write new jokes and deliver those.

Speaker 3:

But for so many standup comics it is about the feeling of people laughing at you and appreciating you and that's what's fueling them. And for me it was the creativity. And I don't need the attention and the acceptance of a crowd every night, but some people feed off that and that works for them. For other people, doing the deep work can be with another person or it can be with a group, but it doesn't necessarily need to be documented and shown, or it can be documented and shown later. So there's nothing wrong with wanting to be seen, but expecting everyone to have the same desired lifestyle is not helpful. We should really embrace the concept of different personalities and different business models and different ways to be in the world, without people feeling like extroverts are the right way to be and introverts are the wrong way to be. We can all be all these personalities all the time. We just have to accept each other and celebrate what works for each person.

Speaker 2:

I think that's a beautiful way to wrap up our conversation today, malena, and what is the best way for people to get in touch with you and find out more about your work?

Speaker 3:

Well, the best way to get in touch with me is on LinkedIn. It's linkedincom slash in slash Malena. Touch with me is on LinkedIn. It's linkedincom slash in slash Milena. And if you type in the first part of my first name in Google or Bing or your preferred search engine, you will find everything about me. It's M-A-H-L-E-N-A and there's only a couple of us with that name, so I'm the one. It looks like me, fun and funny.

Speaker 2:

Love and funny love that. Yes, so we're gonna have all your you know, your website and social media links and, uh, all all the necessary ways for people to get in touch with you in the show notes as well, and thank you so much for our conversation today. Thank you for bringing joy and brightness on a topic like stage fright. Is there one final thing you want to share with our listeners today about stage fright and overcoming it and their relationship with speaking?

Speaker 3:

with speaking. The main thing I want to say, like Serena said before, is that we should all be kind to ourselves. So if you have stage fright or you have anxiety about speaking, it's okay to acknowledge that it's not something to berate yourself for or feel embarrassed about. Just acknowledge that speaking is something that provide that that gives you anxiety, but also it gives you an opportunity to share your story and who you are, because more of us, especially introverts, need to share our stories in a way that makes sense for us.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Thank you, Melaina, and thank you for listening to this episode of the Quiet Warrior podcast. If you've enjoyed today's episode, I encourage you to review it, rate it on your listening platform and share this episode with a friend who could benefit from understanding how we can speak and share our stories and be ourselves authentically in a world that is noisy and chaotic and that doesn't always make room for the quiet ones. So thank you and I'll see you on the next episode. I'm so grateful that you're here today. If you found this content valuable, please share it on your social media channels and subscribe to the show on your favorite listening platform.

Speaker 1:

Together, we can help more introverts thrive To receive more uplifting content like this. Connect with me on Instagram at.

Speaker 2:

Serena Lo Quiet Warrior Coach. Thank you for sharing your time and your energy with me. See you on the next episode.